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Post by dinosauria101 on Sept 20, 2019 12:12:29 GMT 5
GreyIf you don't mind me asking, what's the fossil forum?
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Post by Grey on Sept 20, 2019 14:28:26 GMT 5
A forum where experienced collectors and professionals often discuss. thefossilforum.com
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Post by dinosauria101 on Sept 20, 2019 16:39:41 GMT 5
^Thanks.
On topic, what is the mouthgape of Livyatan? I heard it had a wider gape than a sperm whale, but by how much?
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Post by Infinity Blade on Sept 20, 2019 17:30:31 GMT 5
We don't know Livyatan's gape. That it had a wider gape than the sperm whale also appears to be unfounded (as far as I know).
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Post by Grey on Sept 20, 2019 19:05:11 GMT 5
Something orca and sperm whale might be a good guess given the shape of its jaws.
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Post by theropod on Sept 20, 2019 19:52:17 GMT 5
We don’t even know the gapes of those taxa.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Sept 20, 2019 20:25:37 GMT 5
I did find this, though not sure on the accuracy  |
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Post by theropod on Sept 20, 2019 20:45:06 GMT 5
Pointed this out twice already ( recently!), nothing about that says anything about Livyatan’s gape. Why would anyone assume that it does? I have never seen someone taking a look at Scott Hartman’s skeletal of Sue and concluding that T. rex couldn’t open its jaws wider than 37°, yet somehow when they see that Livyatan depiction, lots of people seem to assume it to have some sort of implication for its gape angle for some reason, even though that has obviously never been studied. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Sept 20, 2019 21:00:39 GMT 5
So nothing at all? Zilch, zip, nada?
Must just be a guess chart then.
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Post by theropod on Sept 20, 2019 21:03:10 GMT 5
^No it’s not, it just simply doesn’t say the thing people for some reason think it does. Nowhere on that chart does it say anything like "this is how far Livyatan could open its mouth" or anything like that. Just like Scott Hartman portraying T. rex with its mouth open in a skeletal doesn’t imply such a thing.
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Post by prehistorican on Sept 20, 2019 21:26:48 GMT 5
To be fair an orca and a sperm whale gape is a wide range so yeah.
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Post by theropod on Sept 20, 2019 21:42:08 GMT 5
To be fair an orca and a sperm whale gape is a wide range so yeah. Are you implying you have data on their gapes? If so, I would be very interested in those (and I suspect some others here too). |
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Post by elosha11 on Sept 20, 2019 22:05:38 GMT 5
There are many pictures of orcas with their mouths open both in nature and captivity. This picture is substantially widest gape angle I could find (in a five minute google search), and I wouldn't be surprised if this is around maximum gape for an orca. Of course Livytan was a whale, not a dolphin, and more closely akin to a sperm whale. So here's bull sperm whale's gape as well.  From hiveminer.com/Tags/mouth%2Corca From www.researchgate.net/figure/Profiles-of-Physeter-showing-closed-and-open-oral-cavity-with-normal-and-wide-gape-in_fig1_250020599. I haven't found any image showing such a wide gape for a sperm whale. This is the widest gapes I found. And I'm hesitant to rely on dead specimens as their bodies/jaws may be affected by decomposition and not at natural angles. With those caveats...    |
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Post by jhg on Sept 21, 2019 12:47:12 GMT 5
We don't know Livyatan's gape. That it had a wider gape than the sperm whale also appears to be unfounded (as far as I know). Probably enough to chew a Titanocetus’ belly. |
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Post by Grey on Sept 21, 2019 19:32:09 GMT 5
We don't know Livyatan's gape. That it had a wider gape than the sperm whale also appears to be unfounded (as far as I know). Probably enough to chew a Titanocetus’ belly. IF it preyed on mysticetes, which is not confirmed (SVP 2019).  |
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