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Post by creature386 on Jan 18, 2015 14:39:58 GMT 5
I had a debate about that at school. Just about everyone in my class was against it. I guess I am in favor of "Yes, with some restrictions" (like not depicting God), looking at how sensitive the people in my class were. Some of them even criticized me for my position (I argued for it) after the debate.
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Post by theropod on Jan 18, 2015 16:21:02 GMT 5
I can understand that people who take their religion very seriously can be insulted by it, and there really is a lot of tasteless stuff out there that’s just supposed to make people angry.
On the other hand, that they do is their own decision (it’s not as if being religious was fundamentally something one has no choice about), and they have to deal with the consequences. What others think about it shouldn’t matter. Otherwise what about science? Should scientists be forced to agree with some religion, because religious people might feel insulted otherwise? Fundamentalists who think so surely deserve to be mocked.
Satire makes fun of pretty much everything, so I can’t see why there should be a special restriction of the freedom of speech and press just for religion.
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Post by creature386 on Jan 18, 2015 17:43:10 GMT 5
Pretty much what I think. After all, there is not just religious freedom, but also equality of religions and that doesn't mean "Do not mock religion, unless it is the Catholic Church!".
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Post by Vodmeister on Jan 23, 2015 0:37:36 GMT 5
Some atheists on YouTube will deliberately mock religions (usually either Christianity or Islam) to get a reaction out of people. No prizes for guessing who I'm talking about. I am against that, because it makes all of us atheists look like obnoxious smartasses. On the other hand, fundamentalists and extremists deserve to be ridiculed for obvious reasons.
The biggest problem though, is that non-theists will look at these few delusional lunatics, and assume that they are representative of all religious people. Therefore, they make fun of religion and their religious scriptures, which gets a reaction out of casual Christians and Muslims who are otherwise great people. It's a vicious cycle of hate.
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Post by creature386 on Jan 23, 2015 1:50:37 GMT 5
Well, satire is not necessarily going out and insulting people. But I agree that satire should not be used for provocation (in case that is your point). Or at least it shouldn't be the main intent, entertainment of the audience and possible critique should be in the foreground.
What I wondered is where the limits are, i.e. should Muhammed be depicted? The question is particularly interesting because I am not even sure if that is actually forbidden in Islam.
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Post by Vodmeister on Feb 5, 2015 9:43:30 GMT 5
IMO it should almost never be acceptable to turn something verbal into something physical. I say "almost" because I'm sure that if I made a generalized statement, someone would come up to me with an extreme case of where it is justified.
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Post by theropod on Feb 5, 2015 11:50:09 GMT 5
Obviously religious people often seem to think religion is such a case.
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Post by Vodmeister on Feb 26, 2015 6:14:28 GMT 5
Has anyone watched darkmatter2525's videos? I've been a regular viewer of his videos for years now, he's one of my favorite atheist YouTubers (no idea why his name slipped has my mind on this thread) His are actual sarcasm that is actually criticizes certain questionable (to put it mildly) religious ideas by making a lot of very valid points - in witty ways.
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Post by Vodmeister on Feb 27, 2015 4:00:01 GMT 5
I know that he is an excellent producer, but this episode was extraordinary by anyone's standards.
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drone
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 53 
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Post by drone on May 19, 2015 12:05:20 GMT 5
Yes, with no restrictions or exceptions at all, depictions of gods or other religious characters should be managed as any other fantasy characters.
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Post by creature386 on May 19, 2015 20:50:12 GMT 5
A somewhat relevant question when talking about Islam (it should be absolutely obvious that this thread was more or less a reaction to Charlie Hebdo anyway):
Does the Q'ran even prohibit depicting Muhammed? All the Muslims I know say yes, but there are apparently hints for the opposite, such as depictions of Muhammed by the first Muslims and the fact that no verse explicitly says so.
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Post by coherentsheaf on May 20, 2015 4:04:45 GMT 5
I am strongly in favor of satire in most conceivable forms. Human expression would be a dull affair without it.
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Post by Vodmeister on May 22, 2015 1:43:32 GMT 5
Yes, with no restrictions or exceptions at all, depictions of gods or other religious characters should be managed as any other fantasy characters. We can bash fictional characters like Superman, Batman, Hulk, etc... all we want. The problem is that fictional characters do not have the emotional attachment and backing of billions of people around the world, like Jesus or Mohammed do. I have yet to hear of any Marvel fan murdering a DC fan for mocking Spiderman. One simply cannot compare fantasy characters to religion. Yes, to an agnostic atheist such as myself, they are both equally relevant, but the real world unfortunately doesn't work that way. |
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Post by theropod on May 22, 2015 17:43:26 GMT 5
Doesn’t mean it shouldn’t.
Actually, isn’t there some sort of religious group based on Star Wars that call themselves jedi?
I don’t want to insult anyone, but it has to be said: Nobody would take that (or pastafarianism for that matter) seriously. So, why do people take other religions that seriously then? It’s ridiculous how even many atheists still feel the need to walk on tiptoes when discussing religion to avoid hurting anybody’s feelings, as if those feelings themselves were something that deserves special protection, when the subjects of those religous beliefs are, for all we know, about as real as "the force" (or the flying spagetti monster).
Somebody makes fun of a work of pop culture, or of the notion that our universe was created by a sentient pile of noodles–everybody laughs and agrees that it’s ridiculous.
Somebody makes fun of religion—everybody considers them insensitive and tactless, some people even shoot them or behead them.
It’s time to get rid of those double standards that force society to be over-careful about not insulting any religous beliefs.
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Post by creature386 on May 22, 2015 19:50:42 GMT 5
While their behavior is irrational, their reactions have deep psychological reasons. For example some people who were raised to be strictly religious and then become atheists just can't do certain things their religion prohibits even when they don't think the law is rational (I heard a story of an ex-Muslima who still doesn't like to wear a bikini). There are apparently cases when feelings contradict logical reasoning and yet defeat it.
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