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Post by prehistorican on Oct 23, 2017 3:59:47 GMT 5
In 2006, a paleontologist by the name of Klaus Honninger found a Megalodon vertebrae column 18.26m in length. The Megalodon specimen would have been large even for its own kind possibly reaching 19m+ in length. For this battle, assume the upper estimates of this specimen. So how many transient orcas do you believe it would take to kill the upper estimate for this specimen?
Fighters:
Klaus Honninger's Megalodon (Upper Estimate) Length: 19m+ Weight: 91 tonnes
Transient Orcas
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Post by creature386 on Oct 23, 2017 13:00:21 GMT 5
The animal versus animal scenarios always involve known opponents, discussions which would be the best matching opponents belong here, so I moved the thread. As for my own guess, I honestly dunno. From 14 upwards I guess. This megalodon is definitely larger than anything any orca pod has ever been observed to take down.
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Post by prehistorican on Oct 24, 2017 0:02:11 GMT 5
The animal versus animal scenarios always involve known opponents, discussions which would be the best matching opponents belong here, so I moved the thread. As for my own guess, I honestly dunno. From 14 upwards I guess. This megalodon is definitely larger than anything any orca pod has ever been observed to take down. Wow, I am truly amazed. Over 14 orcas, wow I've heard people say even a 20.3m Megalodon would have been decimated by 15 or 6 of them (sometimes even less) transient orcas. So then what is the largest animal an orca pack has been witnessed taking down? And how many did it take? |
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Post by elosha11 on Oct 24, 2017 1:10:13 GMT 5
To my knowledge, the largest animal orcas have been documented attacking was an 18 meter subadult blue whale. Around 30 of them attacked and badly wounded the whale. They broke off the attack without killing it, although it was severely wounded and may have died later from its wounds. The incident is discussed in various threads here, and at carnivora. It's quite possible that larger animals have been recorded as being attacked/killed, but this is the biggest one I know of.
Orcas have been documented killing adult female sperm whales, fin whales, and bowheaded whales as well. But these animals are likely all smaller than the blue whale reference above. You'd need to review the documentation as to an estimate as to how many orcas on average attacked these whales.
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Post by prehistorican on Oct 24, 2017 4:49:07 GMT 5
Only an 18m blue whale? (I know it sounds ironic considering the size), but the hype around the "fierceness" of the orca pods makes it seem like 30 could easily take down a 5 adult blue whales.
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Post by prehistorican on Oct 24, 2017 4:54:44 GMT 5
An 18m subadult blue whale should be around 30 tonnes, correct? If not how massive (weight) do you calculate/guess this animal was?
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Post by Life on Oct 24, 2017 9:49:53 GMT 5
prehistoricanMegalodon (16m TL or greater) is not only a huge animal but an endothermic (Ferrón, 2017) raptorial superpredator (Wroe et al., 2008). It is extremely unlikely that a pod of Transcient Orcas would challenge it in the first place [impractical]. For the sake of argument, I shall consider your assumption. Now, we need to keep the strengths of Megalodon in mind. Not only is it capable of high-speed maneuvers (endothermic physiology) and killing an Orca easily (through ramming and/or biting), it doesn't need to stay near the surface to breathe either (decent prospects of escape). Biological characteristics notwithstanding, a Megalodon this big is also expected to be a mature hunter. Megalodon, literally, has [the luxury] to fight Orca on its own terms in short. People tend to forget that Orca are biological organisms with vulnerabilities and sensitivities, not zombies. Should a pod experience a casualty or two in a fight, it is unlikely to persist (most likely withdraw and pursue an easier prey). The animals they encounter in modern times are [1] relatively too small to put up a fight or [2] non-raptorial [if large]. References:-- Ferrón, H. G. (2017). Regional endothermy as a trigger for gigantism in some extinct macropredatory sharks. PloS one, 12(9), e0185185. - Wroe, S., Huber, D. R., Lowry, M., McHenry, C., Moreno, K., Clausen, P., ... & Summers, A. P. (2008). Three‐dimensional computer analysis of white shark jaw mechanics: how hard can a great white bite?. Journal of Zoology, 276(4), 336-342.
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Post by prehistorican on Oct 24, 2017 11:07:16 GMT 5
Man if only more people were like you, not thinking orcas are invincible. I'm tired of people thinking orcas are like gods. They aren't, simply put.
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Post by Life on Oct 24, 2017 12:33:31 GMT 5
Man if only more people were like you, not thinking orcas are invincible. I'm tired of people thinking orcas are like gods. They aren't, simply put. Thank you. Some people, in their blind love for an animal, get carried away in a discussion often. Hollywood syndrome perhaps. |
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Post by creature386 on Oct 24, 2017 14:28:38 GMT 5
The animal versus animal scenarios always involve known opponents, discussions which would be the best matching opponents belong here, so I moved the thread. As for my own guess, I honestly dunno. From 14 upwards I guess. This megalodon is definitely larger than anything any orca pod has ever been observed to take down. Wow, I am truly amazed. Over 14 orcas, wow I've heard people say even a 20.3m Megalodon would have been decimated by 15 or 6 of them (sometimes even less) transient orcas. So then what is the largest animal an orca pack has been witnessed taking down? And how many did it take? Are you talking about some guys on YouTube? It's been a long time since I've taken such people seriously. Anyway, I had the subadult blue whale in mind as well while writing the last post. But in all fairness, the fight against the blue whale was not a fight to the death. It could very well be that they simply got tired from chasing it (of course, a blue whale cannot kill an orca the way a Megalodon could, but still). Is this actually a fight to the death like in AVA scenarios or can it end if the orcas give up? |
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Post by elosha11 on Oct 24, 2017 20:59:47 GMT 5
An 18m subadult blue whale should be around 30 tonnes, correct? If not how massive (weight) do you calculate/guess this animal was? I haven't found any source that quantifies the weight of a subadult of 18 meters. Most sources just speak of max weight of the species. 30 tons seems possible, but you'd have to do some more extensive research or speak with an expert to know with certainty. |
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Post by prehistorican on Oct 25, 2017 1:35:03 GMT 5
Wow, I am truly amazed. Over 14 orcas, wow I've heard people say even a 20.3m Megalodon would have been decimated by 15 or 6 of them (sometimes even less) transient orcas. So then what is the largest animal an orca pack has been witnessed taking down? And how many did it take? Are you talking about some guys on YouTube? It's been a long time since I've taken such people seriously. Anyway, I had the subadult blue whale in mind as well while writing the last post. But in all fairness, the fight against the blue whale was not a fight to the death. It could very well be that they simply got tired from chasing it (of course, a blue whale cannot kill an orca the way a Megalodon could, but still). Is this actually a fight to the death like in AVA scenarios or can it end if the orcas give up? Unfortunatley people on Quora as well. One dude said "that orca's ancestors killed Megalodons" (note that I was talking about this exact specimen over 19m and 100 tons). Another "zoologist" said that six of them could kill a large/ maximum Megalodon. One person even said 15 orca could "easily" dispatch a maximum sized Megalodon and "every other apex predator that ever swam the oceans".It's everywhere man, even in the Meg series (but to be fair it is fiction an the Megalodons are underweighted in mass) the author writes "even 7-8 orcas could kill a shark like Angel". Angel is a 22.6m Megalodon which grew past normal length due to living in captivity with plentiful food. There is no friggin way orcas could kill a fictional Megalodon like that, just shows you the hype around orcas. Hell even regular people think that 7-8 orcas could take down a Megalodon this big. IMO an absolute minimimum of 18 transients to kill a Meg this big. Also guys, what is the largest transient pack ever witnessed? Some people even say that "great white skin is bullet-resistant (5 centimeters thick)". So a female Megalodon's hide is twice as thick as normal (protection during mating) and so it's hide must be I think 0.3-0.6meters thick. |
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Post by prehistorican on Oct 25, 2017 1:45:36 GMT 5
I meant what is the largest Transient orca pod?
And what is the largest Transient orca clan?
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Post by creature386 on Oct 25, 2017 18:24:49 GMT 5
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Post by prehistorican on Oct 25, 2017 18:27:00 GMT 5
Well in a battle then, it seems like medium-large clan is needed to take down something this large.
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