Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160 
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Post by Weasel on May 4, 2014 0:36:48 GMT 5
And can cats kill wolves or coyotes three times they size? I doubt it. House cats afaik don’t even kill foxes or badgers, and a racoon would give any cat a run for its money. I didn’t write that stuff about hares because hares are formidable, I wrote it because they are agile. An eagle can catch a hare (or a mouse, or a sparrow…), requiring considerable speed and precision in placing its talons, so you aren’t exactly convincing me that a cat can dodge an attacking eagle like a ninja. The cat could certainly escape the eagle (at least momentarily) while both are on the ground–obviously, the eagle cannot run very fast (its method of fighting on the ground is simply to lunge itself at its opponent talons first, which works well enough). But that will only be a temporary solution. In the end, the eagle can fight the cat when it wants, where it wants. You must realise the argument "can simply keep facing it" also applies to the eagle. All it has to to is keep its talons between it and the cat. So what? The eagle still has the better chances to succeed with its attack. Do I really have to post the incident with the coyote, again? I’m loosing count of how often I have to repost those papers just because you guys never seem to read them. The eagle only made contact for a very short time, which was enough to puncture its lung and aorta, causing the coyote’s subsequent death. It could do the same to a cat. In fact, an eagle striking at a similar-sized feline’s head or neck would have a good chance of killing the mammal instantly. A struggle won’t even ensure in that case. I don’t find it very relevant what you think about how formidable servals are, I already explained why that’s not really important, otherwise: whom would you favour, a house cat or an adult coyote? Don’t you think a harpy would kill any martial or crowned eagle in a fight? You’d better do considering the harpy is twice the size… House cats can't kill those animals but wild cats can though that's a whole different debate The hare does not normally turn to try and 'dodge' the eagle and they just run away a hare can avoid a eagle if it does not run away.When I say the cat can dodge the eagle's talons I don't mean ninja like I mean it can avoid the talons and grab the eagle. The eagle can't fight the cat where it wants maybe when it wants if it flies at high altitude. You claim the eagle can attack first, which means it must swoop down and when this happens the cat can avoid the talons, grab it, and kill it before it has time to defend itself. Coyotes/wolves are not as agile as cats IMO, and they can't grapple with forelimbs. Those coyotes are also running away and most of the time don't defend themselves good. Again with this 'servals are impressive' thing they don't even kill adults. So your saying "martial eagles kills serval kittens so harpy eagle can kill bobcat"  |
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on May 4, 2014 0:49:06 GMT 5
Because you seem to have such an aversion to sources and reasons! I did actually. Firstly (and hopefully for the last time), Olendorff 1976→ reports 8 cases of golden eagle predation on house cats in North America (keep in mind that’s only what made it into the scientific literature!), and I would be delighted if you would start looking at the papers I post. Secondly, this→:  That "kitten" may have damaged the eagle "to the point where it can't move", but not to the point were it couldn’t eat half of it. Considering the eagle had already consumed part of the cat, that "kitten" may not have been that small either. Housecats again  try something besides serval kittens and housecats ok? We know the cat is a female because he refers to it as 'her' female housecats weigh 7 pounds and we know its a female golden eagle which can weigh up to 14 pounds. Its not an adult norwgian forest cat you can tell by its head. |
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on May 4, 2014 0:54:28 GMT 5
Because you seem to have such an aversion to sources and reasons! I did actually. Firstly (and hopefully for the last time), Olendorff 1976→ reports 8 cases of golden eagle predation on house cats in North America (keep in mind that’s only what made it into the scientific literature!), and I would be delighted if you would start looking at the papers I post. Secondly, this→: That "kitten" may have damaged the eagle "to the point where it can't move", but not to the point were it couldn’t eat half of it. Considering the eagle had already consumed part of the cat, that "kitten" may not have been that small either. Housecats again try something besides serval kittens and housecats ok? We know the cat is a female because he refers to it as 'her' female housecats weigh 7 pounds and we know its a female golden eagle which can weigh up to 14 pounds. Its not an adult norwgian forest cat you can tell by its head.  Oh my god... theropod was rights it a huge cat !!!! |
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Post by Infinity Blade on May 4, 2014 0:57:09 GMT 5
You are aware that birds of prey can look visually larger to animals (including cats) similar in weight to itself?
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on May 4, 2014 1:10:55 GMT 5
Because There has not been a case where A martial eagle killed an adult serval. If your asking me you must have some sort of proof that they kill full grown servals correct? |
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on May 4, 2014 1:13:58 GMT 5
You are aware that birds of prey can look visually larger to animals (including cats) similar in weight to itself? I am aware but you can still tell its either a smaller housecat around 5lb or a norwegian forest cat kitten. Just by looking at the cat itself ! |
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Post by Infinity Blade on May 4, 2014 1:23:02 GMT 5
I didn't necessarily state there were, just asking you how you knew.
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Post by theropod on May 4, 2014 2:35:56 GMT 5
Yes sure, wild cats the size of golden eagles kill coyotes and wolves. If that were true eagles would be extinct by now. Hares do that thing called sidestepping, you know? seems pretty ninja-like to me… Someone who is supposedly so familiar with servals should know how tiny the skulls of cats can be. Judging its size by the size of its skull is misleading. It exists a theorethical possibility (that might have inspired some early journalists) yes. Now comes the tricky part, why the hell should this be more likely than the eagle sucessfully attacking the cat, and why the hell should the eagle not have the time to defend itself, considering it is every bit as quick as the cat in its movements. If a coyote doesn’t have the sense to "defend itself good", can you tell me why a cat would? That dodging, facing and plucking out of the air doesn’t sound very natural to me… So first of all, what do you judge how formidable the serval is by? Its skull size? If you go by that, every cat is far inferior to a canid of similar size–the very canids eagles have no problem killing. A serval is an impressive kill in this context imo because killing it requires the same qualities that killing a bobcat would require. And those servals were hardly "kittens", they may not have been fully grown but they must have weighed around the same as the eagles in question. Again, as with the servals, killing a housecat will require the same set of qualities from an eagle that killing a bobcat will, when correcting for size of course. North American female golden eagles average ~5kg→, Feral cats average somewhere between 3.3 and 4.5kg (because they usually aren’t that well-fed). |
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Post by Runic on May 4, 2014 2:38:18 GMT 5
Can people not read?
That wasn't a female golden eagle that killed the house cat but a MALE which avg less than7lbs! Do you really think it was bigger than the cat?
And tbh there's no cases of servals or ocelots etc killing eagles head on. While if you look at the pics of eagles with dead cats you can tell they were head on because the cats got puncture wounds in the face and neck not the back of the head.
Edit - wasn't aimed at you theropod
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on May 4, 2014 2:54:02 GMT 5
Can people not read? That wasn't a female golden eagle that killed the house cat but a MALE which avg less than7lbs! Do you really think it was bigger than the cat? And tbh there's no cases of servals or ocelots etc killing eagles head on. While if you look at the pics of eagles with dead cats you can tell they were head on because the cats got puncture wounds in the face and neck not the back of the head. Edit - wasn't aimed at you theropod First you said it was a norwegian forest cat and now a house cat? I don't why I even listened to you when you said it was a 20 pound cat. This is what a 8,6lb housecat looks like: I now think its a cat around 5 or 6 pounds Attachments:
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on May 4, 2014 2:55:05 GMT 5
Eagles don't kill adult cats either Runic
Maybe a house cat or feral cat but thats about it
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Post by theropod on May 4, 2014 3:00:09 GMT 5
I think you two got mixed up on the accounts. One was a norwegian forest cat and a male eagle, the other one was a house cat and a female eagle (is it really possible to tell that from a feather? Incredible, I think I’m gonna take some ornithology lessons!).
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Post by theropod on May 4, 2014 3:00:51 GMT 5
Eagles don't kill adult cats either Runic Maybe a house cat or feral cat but thats about it How are house cats or feral cats not cats? |
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on May 4, 2014 3:04:34 GMT 5
I can't believe theropod actually thinks its a big cat  Uhh... they kill scared subadult wolves and coyotes trying trying to run away.That was not my point it would be much easier to avoid a eagles talons if your facing it than if your running away.Coyote can't defend itself good against a eagle because it can't grapple using forelimbs.If the eagle swoops down and the cat avoids talons and grabs it like I said it can just kill it from there. Why do you keep on trying to bring that housecat and serval thing again? Im just asking for accounts where eagles kill parity cats in a face to face fight. |
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on May 4, 2014 3:06:28 GMT 5
I already explained why domestic and semi domestic house cats are not impressive kills then you stopped replying on that matter.
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try something besides serval kittens and housecats ok? We know the cat is a female because he refers to it as 'her' female housecats weigh 7 pounds and we know its a female golden eagle which can weigh up to 14 pounds. Its not an adult norwgian forest cat you can tell by its head.
