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Post by theropod on May 25, 2014 13:04:32 GMT 5
Because it is just you who gives importance to that.
An adult scottish wild cat facing off with a golden eagle–it is very unlikely for the eagle to have been larger. A wild cat in a video being chased by a smaller eagle. House cats, at least subequal in size to golden eagles, and preyed on by them. Subadult or small adult servals–about the same body mass as the martial eagles in the pictures. Even a short faceoff between a golden eagle and a bobcat that was at least the size of the eagle, but no results there.
If you want more confirmation of faceoffs between similar-sized eagles and cats, you’ll have to find it yourself.
Yes, but it would be even easier for the eagle to dodge it.
Or it adapts its flying path and catches the cat in the air. More likely than the cat doing that with the eagle imho.
Eagles aren’t even afraid of wild cats by the seem of it, otherwise they wouldn”t attack them.
It will be able to do it, but it won’t because a wild animal will not be willing to take the risks that a domestic animal might take.
They are training eagles to attack when and what they want them to attack, not how to attack. The how is the only thing that matters here.
If you read really carefully I did not promote it as a killing weapon (even though of course given infinite time it can deal an infinite amount of damage). Neither are the cat’s claws. These are secondary weapons used for weakening or grappling, not primary damage-dealing tools.
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Weasel
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Post by Weasel on May 26, 2014 6:39:21 GMT 5
Because it is just you who gives importance to that. An adult scottish wild cat facing off with a golden eagle–it is very unlikely for the eagle to have been larger. A wild cat in a video being chased by a smaller eagle. House cats, at least subequal in size to golden eagles, and preyed on by them. Subadult or small adult servals–about the same body mass as the martial eagles in the pictures. Even a short faceoff between a golden eagle and a bobcat that was at least the size of the eagle, but no results there. If you want more confirmation of faceoffs between similar-sized eagles and cats, you’ll have to find it yourself. Yes, but it would be even easier for the eagle to dodge it. Or it adapts its flying path and catches the cat in the air. More likely than the cat doing that with the eagle imho. Eagles aren’t even afraid of wild cats by the seem of it, otherwise they wouldn”t attack them. It will be able to do it, but it won’t because a wild animal will not be willing to take the risks that a domestic animal might take. They are training eagles to attack when and what they want them to attack, not how to attack. The how is the only thing that matters here. If you read really carefully I did not promote it as a killing weapon (even though of course given infinite time it can deal an infinite amount of damage). Neither are the cat’s claws. These are secondary weapons used for weakening or grappling, not primary damage-dealing tools. Actually accounts being at parity and face to face is important. Maybe when the eagle is already at higher altitude but not when the eagle is flying at low altitude and it in front of it (in the air) Neither are afraid of each other, your point? I doubt most cats(any kind) will run away most will fight, bobcats are rather aggressive cats. I actually doubt a wild eagle will be able to kill and adult wolf standing its ground. Beaks aren't going to do anything against a animal with loose fur no where near as much damage as bite will do to eagle I.M.O. If the eagle gets a grip on the cat, it still has a high chance to escape, but I don't think the eagle can escape the cat's grasp seeing as cat's forelimbs are strong. Cat's claws should be capable of killing, for sure it would do more damage than a eagle's beak ! |
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Post by Infinity Blade on May 26, 2014 7:32:13 GMT 5
If the beaks do nothing to loose fur, then how are eagles able to consume cats or other loose furred animals?
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Weasel
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Post by Weasel on May 26, 2014 8:58:22 GMT 5
If the beaks do nothing to loose fur, then how are eagles able to consume cats or other loose furred animals? Because they kill them first, this cat is alive and bobcats can be aggressive so I doubt it will just sit there and let the eagle use it's beak to eat it's flesh. The beak shouldn't even be considered a weapon in this fight. |
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Post by Infinity Blade on May 26, 2014 17:44:27 GMT 5
If the beaks do nothing to loose fur, then how are eagles able to consume cats or other loose furred animals? Because they kill them first, this cat is alive and bobcats can be aggressive so I doubt it will just sit there and let the eagle use it's beak to eat it's flesh. The beak shouldn't even be considered a weapon in this fight. That doesn't matter. The bobcat not allowing itself to be bitten doesn't equate to the eagle not trying nor doing absolutely no damage. As a matter of fact, any apparatus used to regularly bite through, rip, and consume meat (meaning the jaws of any predator) can be used as a weapon, otherwise it can't fulfill that former purpose. The notion that the eagle's beak is not a weapon here is nonsensical. |
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Post by theropod on May 26, 2014 21:49:17 GMT 5
You are the only one who denies the accounts we have include such scenarios. And I thought you were sick of discussing accounts?
A volant animal by default has a much better ability to maneuver while in the air than a terrestrial animal, regardless of the altitude. The cat can leap for the eagle, but nothing keeps the eagle from simply changing direction.
I know good examples of the opposite. And even coyotes run from eagles that are flying.
That depends on the size of the wolf and the size of the eagle. But it is besides the point. If you take "training" from the equation, the eagles would still have had the capability of performing the same feats at wolf hunting. In the wild they probably wouldn’t attempt that, due to the risk involved in attacking such a large opponent. But that doesn’t equate to "they couldn’t".
An eagle subdoing a canid is not the same as a human punching through a brick, it’s not a matter of training. The impact the humans had was on completely different matters.
In case you haven’t noticed, bobcats are smaller than coyotes, not even remotely comparable to an adult wolf, and harpy eagles are considerably bigger and more powerful than golden eagles.
Ausar already answered to that.
Besides, the cat’s bite is not going to do as much damage as the eagles talons, and it is much more difficult for it to apply. I was comparing the eagles beak to the cat’s claws in terms of damaging potential, because it can be used similarly, to lacerate and weaken something.
Are you telling me an eagles talons were weak? Any animal has very bad chances of escaping a grasp by those claws, they puncture too deep and their grip is too powerful. That should have been exemplified by the mongolian falconery videos; the eagles manage to hold onto the muzzle of much larger wolves, even if those thrash around violently.
Any evidence for that? The beak is specialized for tearing, while the claws are mostly for holding. Obviously the former is good at causing flesh wounds, which is basically what the cat’s claws do too.
It might not even get the oppurtunity, given it might have some 8cm talons embedded in its brain…
Of course it’s pretty irrelevant whether the eagle eats it or not once it is on top, it will die either way. But its beak can certainly be used in this manner, they do it while prey-riding big herbivores like pronghorn.
OK, fine with that. Neither should the cat’s claws for that matter. It might really be better to focus on their primary weaponery in this scenario, since that is what they will actually do the killing with…I think we all know how that compares.
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Weasel
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Post by Weasel on May 30, 2014 8:51:38 GMT 5
Because they kill them first, this cat is alive and bobcats can be aggressive so I doubt it will just sit there and let the eagle use it's beak to eat it's flesh. The beak shouldn't even be considered a weapon in this fight. That doesn't matter. The bobcat not allowing itself to be bitten doesn't equate to the eagle not trying nor doing absolutely no damage. As a matter of fact, any apparatus used to regularly bite through, rip, and consume meat (meaning the jaws of any predator) can be used as a weapon, otherwise it can't fulfill that former purpose. The notion that the eagle's beak is not a weapon here is nonsensical. |
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Weasel
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Post by Weasel on May 30, 2014 8:56:40 GMT 5
Because they kill them first, this cat is alive and bobcats can be aggressive so I doubt it will just sit there and let the eagle use it's beak to eat it's flesh. The beak shouldn't even be considered a weapon in this fight. That doesn't matter. The bobcat not allowing itself to be bitten doesn't equate to the eagle not trying nor doing absolutely no damage. As a matter of fact, any apparatus used to regularly bite through, rip, and consume meat (meaning the jaws of any predator) can be used as a weapon, otherwise it can't fulfill that former purpose. The notion that the eagle's beak is not a weapon here is nonsensical. Using a beak to eat and using it as a weapon against an animal as agile as a cat are two entirely different things. |
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Post by theropod on May 30, 2014 15:33:01 GMT 5
Using claws to hold onto prey and using them as a weapon against an animal as agile as an eagle are two entirely different things.  |
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Post by Infinity Blade on May 30, 2014 15:58:17 GMT 5
That doesn't matter. The bobcat not allowing itself to be bitten doesn't equate to the eagle not trying nor doing absolutely no damage. As a matter of fact, any apparatus used to regularly bite through, rip, and consume meat (meaning the jaws of any predator) can be used as a weapon, otherwise it can't fulfill that former purpose. The notion that the eagle's beak is not a weapon here is nonsensical. Using a beak to eat and using it as a weapon against an animal as agile as a cat are two entirely different things. Ahaha, "the oh so agile cats" excuse again. That's among the few things going for the bobcat here, and it's not like the eagle isn't agile either. In terms of damage dealing, there's no difference between using a beak against a (preferably fresh and undamaged, although it can obviously be the case that one part of a carcass can be damaged while another part isn't, so it depends on where you bite) carcass or live animal (again, so long as the part of the carcass you're biting hasn't been damaged yet, and this can certainly occur). While there certainly is one regarding how easily you can physically use it due to there existing a struggle (ex: hunting, fighting), pretty much, if not all predator jaws are used as weapons against live animals, as I've stated before. If they can cause damage to an undamaged portion of a carcass while feeding, they can certainly cause damage to a live animal. The only issue is to catch that animal and apply it (which at times may be difficult depending on the animals involved), but going back to my first point...... |
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Post by theropod on May 30, 2014 17:54:29 GMT 5
Yeah, always this oh so great feline agility.
What about accipitrid agility? It is amazing as well. Are there still people who missed those videos demonstrating their extremely quick reflexes and accelleration? And doesn’t the ability of eagles to catch prey as small as mice and as fast as pronghorn demonstrate their precision, maneuverability and speed?
The cat is matched or even outmatched in these regards by the bird. Even on the ground, birds of prey can be remarkably agile due to stability flapping and wing-augmented lunging.
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Post by Runic on May 30, 2014 19:26:28 GMT 5
The bobcat ain't gonna be running around doing magic leaps. Once the two make contact they're staying embraced.
This exaggeration of agility on weasels part is laughable
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 6:09:16 GMT 5
Yep, and I agree with you.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Feb 12, 2019 3:39:13 GMT 5
I favor the eagle. One hit on the bobcat and it's in major trouble.
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