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Post by Runic on Apr 25, 2014 6:50:12 GMT 5
You posted nothing about age... even if you can only look at the part not eaten it's a kitten. This is the part where I ask you to quote when I ever said anything about the age of it in this discussion. |
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Weasel
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Post by Weasel on Apr 25, 2014 6:51:56 GMT 5
You said read above when I asked you about it's age. It is a kitten which is even more impressive than a adult housecat
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Post by theropod on Apr 25, 2014 14:57:48 GMT 5
Even if the eagle would have survived this is a housecat that was able to do that to a eagle and the eagle being in a snare does not mean it was injured and could not fight back it just could not ambush the cat or fly away like it normally would. So what? Just proves my point. Cats can be dangerous to similar-sized eagles, but the raptor almost always comes out on top. An eagle having its foot in a snare is the equivalent of a muzzled and leashed dog–both its weapons and its mobility disabled. This severely impairs its ability to fight back. But I understand what you are getting at; it was surely impressive how the eagle fought back at all→, trapped and attacked by a cougar outweighing it by a factor of 5 or more  You mean like this→? Yes, sure. An eagle will just let itself get caught by a jumping cat the majority of the time. It seems you actually regard this account as far more impressive on the eagle’s part than others do… Let’s put it this way: Golden eagles kill coyotes and smallish wolves quite sucessfully, carnivorans similarly formidable to a bobcat. Bobcats are also listed as prey items of American golden eagles, but the age and gender were not specified, although there is what seems to be footage of an interaction between the eagle and a bobcat where the eagle surely isn’t reluctant to attack it. There is, to my knowledge, no account of a bobcat preying on a golden eagle on the other hand. Now, harpy eagles are significantly larger and more powerful than golden eagles. It takes one look at their talons to realise they are very formidable animals. At least female harpies are also comparable in size to adult bobcats on average, although much smaller than the record weight for the latter. |
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Weasel
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Post by Weasel on Apr 26, 2014 6:04:33 GMT 5
Even if the eagle would have survived this is a housecat that was able to do that to a eagle and the eagle being in a snare does not mean it was injured and could not fight back it just could not ambush the cat or fly away like it normally would. So what? Just proves my point. Cats can be dangerous to similar-sized eagles, but the raptor almost always comes out on top. An eagle having its foot in a snare is the equivalent of a muzzled and leashed dog–both its weapons and its mobility disabled. This severely impairs its ability to fight back. But I understand what you are getting at; it was surely impressive how the eagle fought back at all→, trapped and attacked by a cougar outweighing it by a factor of 5 or more You mean like this→? Yes, sure. An eagle will just let itself get caught by a jumping cat the majority of the time. It seems you actually regard this account as far more impressive on the eagle’s part than others do… Let’s put it this way: Golden eagles kill coyotes and smallish wolves quite sucessfully, carnivorans similarly formidable to a bobcat. Bobcats are also listed as prey items of American golden eagles, but the age and gender were not specified, although there is what seems to be footage of an interaction between the eagle and a bobcat where the eagle surely isn’t reluctant to attack it. There is, to my knowledge, no account of a bobcat preying on a golden eagle on the other hand. Now, harpy eagles are significantly larger and more powerful than golden eagles. It takes one look at their talons to realise they are very formidable animals. At least female harpies are also comparable in size to adult bobcats on average, although much smaller than the record weight for the latter. Theropod though it was a cougar that attacked it  It should be easy for a cat to just jump up and grab it... A face to face fight is not the same as a ambush. The bobcat can easily avoid the talons and pounce on the eagle from there it would not be hard to bite it's neck and hold.Golden eagles kill cats by ambush for the 100th time I can easily say subadult carcals weighing around 15lb have killed female 14lb martial eagles trying to defend their nest. |
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Post by Runic on Apr 26, 2014 6:10:46 GMT 5
So what? Just proves my point. Cats can be dangerous to similar-sized eagles, but the raptor almost always comes out on top. An eagle having its foot in a snare is the equivalent of a muzzled and leashed dog–both its weapons and its mobility disabled. This severely impairs its ability to fight back. But I understand what you are getting at; it was surely impressive how the eagle fought back at all→, trapped and attacked by a cougar outweighing it by a factor of 5 or more You mean like this→? Yes, sure. An eagle will just let itself get caught by a jumping cat the majority of the time. It seems you actually regard this account as far more impressive on the eagle’s part than others do… Let’s put it this way: Golden eagles kill coyotes and smallish wolves quite sucessfully, carnivorans similarly formidable to a bobcat. Bobcats are also listed as prey items of American golden eagles, but the age and gender were not specified, although there is what seems to be footage of an interaction between the eagle and a bobcat where the eagle surely isn’t reluctant to attack it. There is, to my knowledge, no account of a bobcat preying on a golden eagle on the other hand. Now, harpy eagles are significantly larger and more powerful than golden eagles. It takes one look at their talons to realise they are very formidable animals. At least female harpies are also comparable in size to adult bobcats on average, although much smaller than the record weight for the latter. Theropod though it was a cougar that attacked it It should be easy for a cat to just jump up and grab it... A face to face fight is not the same as a ambush. The bobcat can easily avoid the talons and pounce on the eagle from there it would not be hard to bite it's neck and hold.Golden eagles kill cats by ambush for the 100th time I can easily say subadult carcals weighing around 15lb have killed female 14lb martial eagles trying to defend their nest. Cept Golden Eagles aren't recorded in bobcat diets. Yet bobcats are in Golden Eagles. . . Oh and Martial eagles are said to prey on caracals too on occasion. |
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Weasel
Junior Member
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Post by Weasel on Apr 26, 2014 8:41:02 GMT 5
Theropod though it was a cougar that attacked it It should be easy for a cat to just jump up and grab it... A face to face fight is not the same as a ambush. The bobcat can easily avoid the talons and pounce on the eagle from there it would not be hard to bite it's neck and hold.Golden eagles kill cats by ambush for the 100th time I can easily say subadult carcals weighing around 15lb have killed female 14lb martial eagles trying to defend their nest. Cept Golden Eagles aren't recorded in bobcat diets. Yet bobcats are in Golden Eagles. . . Oh and Martial eagles are said to prey on caracals too on occasion. Martial eagles ALWAYS kills carcals by ambush and I have yet to find an account where a martial eagle killed a adult male carcal there might be a few, but thats no where near the amount where subadult carcals kill adult martial eagles trying to defend their nest, also the carcal don't ambush them when they are in the nest the martial eagles actually try to fight back. Unlike most cases where eagles kill cats, the cats not running away and it knows the eagle is present. Golden eagles mostly take kittens. Male bobcats can easily turn the tables and kill the eagle. |
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Post by theropod on Apr 26, 2014 15:08:38 GMT 5
Are you telling me the cat in this video→ is not a member of the species Puma concolor? It wasn’t for the bobcat in that other previously discusses video. Cats have great reflexes, but those of eagles seem to at least equal them, and their (aerial) mobility is obviously superior. A "face to face fight" in this case has the eagle swooping down, with the cat fully aware of it. That’s pretty much what most accounts of eagles killing wolves, foxes and coyotes are too. And yes, eagles do sucessfully engage in struggles with these prey items, on the ground. How come it can so easily avoid the talons, while the eagle supposedly cannot avoid the cat’s bite? A situation where the eagle is trying to protect its nest is not the same as one where it can swoop down on the feline. And could you post those accounts please? I’ve just seen one, involving an adult male caracal. For all we know, it could have been considerably larger than the eagle in question. And accounts of caracals killing eagles are also ambush scenarios (while the eagle is on the ground), how else would they be able to catch them? So caracal predation on Martial eagles seems less relevant than martial eagle predation on caracals, considering the caracal is likely to have a decent size advantage. |
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Weasel
Junior Member
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Post by Weasel on Apr 26, 2014 20:22:26 GMT 5
Are you telling me the cat in this video→ is not a member of the species Puma concolor? It wasn’t for the bobcat in that other previously discusses video. Cats have great reflexes, but those of eagles seem to at least equal them, and their (aerial) mobility is obviously superior. A "face to face fight" in this case has the eagle swooping down, with the cat fully aware of it. That’s pretty much what most accounts of eagles killing wolves, foxes and coyotes are too. And yes, eagles do sucessfully engage in struggles with these prey items, on the ground. How come it can so easily avoid the talons, while the eagle supposedly cannot avoid the cat’s bite? A situation where the eagle is trying to protect its nest is not the same as one where it can swoop down on the feline. And could you post those accounts please? I’ve just seen one, involving an adult male caracal. For all we know, it could have been considerably larger than the eagle in question. And accounts of caracals killing eagles are also ambush scenarios (while the eagle is on the ground), how else would they be able to catch them? So caracal predation on Martial eagles seems less relevant than martial eagle predation on caracals, considering the caracal is likely to have a decent size advantage. I hope you realize most of the wolves they kill are small and they all run away, they can't turn around and kill the eagle. Killing a fox is not impressive and coyotes and wolves can't even grapple like cats do. when the eagle defends it's nest it doesn't just sit there, it flies around and tries to kill the caracal similar to this case. Cats have been known to eagle birds in mid air I don't see why a bobcat can't do this to a eagle. Attachments:
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Weasel
Junior Member
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Post by Weasel on Apr 26, 2014 20:28:44 GMT 5
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Post by theropod on Apr 26, 2014 21:01:07 GMT 5
OMG, they can’t even grapple. I didn’t realise that, now i have to rethink the whole thing… Seriously, first of all, they can grapple, I thought the data Runic posted would have made that clear by now. Secondly, you won’t find me synonymizing "can kill a dog 6 times its own weight" with "can kill every carnivoran 6 times its weight", because I know damn well that there are relevant anatomical differences that make this impossible. But a bobcat is only a little heavier than a harpy eagle, and accounts have proven eagles are more than a match for similar-sized felines. Also, I hope you realize that even if those wolves were small by wolf standards, they were easily many times bigger than the eagles. The prey bobcats hunt is also not standing there, facing it–in fact that is extremely rare among predatory events. The fact remains tough, that the eagles were quite sucessful in subduing those wolves, even when they did fight back. So, you certainly have an actual account you are basing that whole "caracals regularly kill flying martial eagles at near-equal size"-story on, don’t you? I had posted that account earlier, this is what I wrote: There is one old account→, but it sounds dubious to say the least. Eagles attacking cats and other carnivorans typically do so on the ground, and cats are also not known to use dead birds as parachutes. Also, it involved a bald eagle, not a golden or harpy eagle, which are more formidable. At best, this was a fluke for the cat, at worst, some overenthusiastic reporter got carried away with the reports of overenthusiastic farmers. Now why do you think we won’t see something of these sorts with a bobcat? Simply because an eagle would leave such an opponent on the ground and kill it there! and in case you are wondering, I’m calling this a fluke because the cat would usually have been dead, and had the eagle not flown away with it it would never have gotten toe oppurtunity to "cut its throat". |
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Post by Runic on Apr 26, 2014 21:07:52 GMT 5
Weasel for every account you find of a cat killing a near sized eagle I can post two of the reverse.
Eagles frequently kill cats both on the ground and when hunting.
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Weasel
Junior Member
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Post by Weasel on Apr 26, 2014 21:37:37 GMT 5
OMG, they can’t even grapple. I didn’t realise that, now i have to rethink the whole thing… Seriously, first of all, they can grapple, I thought the data Runic posted would have made that clear by now. Secondly, you won’t find me synonymizing "can kill a dog 6 times its own weight" with "can kill every carnivoran 6 times its weight", because I know damn well that there are relevant anatomical differences that make this impossible. But a bobcat is only a little heavier than a harpy eagle, and accounts have proven eagles are more than a match for similar-sized felines. Also, I hope you realize that even if those wolves were small by wolf standards, they were easily many times bigger than the eagles. The prey bobcats hunt is also not standing there, facing it–in fact that is extremely rare among predatory events. The fact remains tough, that the eagles were quite sucessful in subduing those wolves, even when they did fight back. So, you certainly have an actual account you are basing that whole "caracals regularly kill flying martial eagles at near-equal size"-story on, don’t you? I had posted that account earlier, this is what I wrote: There is one old account→, but it sounds dubious to say the least. Eagles attacking cats and other carnivorans typically do so on the ground, and cats are also not known to use dead birds as parachutes. Also, it involved a bald eagle, not a golden or harpy eagle, which are more formidable. At best, this was a fluke for the cat, at worst, some overenthusiastic reporter got carried away with the reports of overenthusiastic farmers. Now why do you think we won’t see something of these sorts with a bobcat? Simply because an eagle would leave such an opponent on the ground and kill it there! and in case you are wondering, I’m calling this a fluke because the cat would usually have been dead, and had the eagle not flown away with it it would never have gotten toe oppurtunity to "cut its throat". Wolves/coyotes can't grapple like cats do at least A cat can jump and grab a eagle in mid air using its arms and hold the eagle down while it suffocates it. A harpy/golden eagle being more formidable has nothing to do with this the tiger still would have killed it. Stop saying the cat would have been dead it's a ****ing tiger genius |
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Weasel
Junior Member
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Post by Weasel on Apr 26, 2014 21:43:23 GMT 5
Weasel for every account you find of a cat killing a near sized eagle I can post two of the reverse. Eagles frequently kill cats both on the ground and when hunting. Eagles always kill unimpressive cats by ambush even if it fight's it on the ground the eagle still got the advantage of attacking from the air first |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Apr 26, 2014 22:04:03 GMT 5
Um, what tiger? Am I missing something here?
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Post by theropod on Apr 26, 2014 22:04:56 GMT 5
WeaselAnd that’s an advantage a flying animal will always have, and likely make use of in a realistic scenario (unless it is ensnared…)! Never said they could. Than it is funny the only account of any animal catching an eagle in mid air is from a wolf Sad if it really needs a throat hold on such a relatively small and lightly built opponent. A canid definitely wouldn’t. In that case, its grappling ability is more of a necessity than an advantage. If the eagle was to make the mistake of lifting it into the air while it was still alive and then giving it the chance to tear it apart, likely. On the other hand, that ocurrence would arguably have been even less likely to happen (and it was already unlikely, otherwise you’d see ocurrences of the "eagle fails to kill housecat on initial attack, then lifts it into the air, cat retaliates and then uses dead eagle as parachute"-type more frequently) I’ve only wrote that once, and you already tell me to "stop say ing" it? Something about me seems to always inspire people to call me a genius. Thanks! Even being a genius tough, I don’t exactly see how the coloration pattern of the cat’s pelt would have provided much in the department of protection from the eagle’s talons… This was a predation attempt gone wrong, perhaps a tiny little bit embellished (especially regarding the parachute and how the eagle "whirled her upwards in a rapid vertical flight") by a 19th-century farmer or journalist, that’s it.
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