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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Sept 5, 2020 15:47:33 GMT 5
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Sept 5, 2020 15:53:57 GMT 5
 Same source as above. |
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Sept 5, 2020 15:56:45 GMT 5
 This is an email from Linda Kerley. Posted by Big Bons on the late AVA forum. I hope this counts as useful information. |
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Post by creature386 on Sept 5, 2020 16:21:46 GMT 5
Could you please use the quote function when quoting someone? I don't think this is the first time I'm telling you this.
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Sept 5, 2020 16:23:44 GMT 5
Could you please use the quote function when quoting someone? I don't think this is the first time I'm telling you this. Alright. It’s done. |
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Sept 10, 2020 20:10:59 GMT 5
 Stephcurry posted this on Carnivora and I believe it is relevant here too. |
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reeper
Junior Member Rank 1
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Post by reeper on Oct 3, 2020 19:59:34 GMT 5
PABLOWhy are you cherry-picking one old study and completely ignoring much more recent scientific studies which clearly prove that Siberian tigers regularly prey on bears?
The study you posted from Dale Miquelle is old and outdated, which was published way back in 1996 and was only conducted in a certain region of the Sikhote-Alin.
The percentage of bears in the tigers diet varies depending on regions and seasons, a fact which you need to take into account. In some regions of the Russian far east, tigers habitually hunt and kill bears, whereas in other regions, not as much.
And how are these just "individual accounts"? Several scientific studies were posted on this thread, which showed that bears make up a large portion of the tigers diet in some regions. All you did is selectively cherry-pick one singular, old outdated study, and ignore all the much more recent studies which prove just how badly wrong you are about this topic.
Here's a far more recent scientific peer-reviewed study from Dale Miquelle ( 2015 ), which showed that bears make up a large significant portion of the tigers diet, especially in the summer months, interestingly, summer is the time when bears are in peak condition and full strength, but tigers still regularly predate them.
This study was posted on the 1st page of this thread, which you completely ignored because you know it clearly refutes what you like to think....
www.researchgate.net/profile/Dale_Miquelle/publication/275837048_A_comparison_of_food_habits_and_prey_preference_of_Amur_tiger_Panthera_tigris_altaica_Timmink_1984_at_three_sites_in_the_Russian_Far_East/links/56635fe908ae418a786bb13d.pdf
This study showed that bears were an even more important food source for tigers in the summer months, than even wild boars and deer! The study also reports that tigers prey on adult bears too, so what does that tell you?
Another far more recent study ( than your outdated one ) from 2012, from Russian biologist, Tkachenko, which again showed that bears made up a large 31.2% of the tigers diet in Khekhtsir reserve:
So, way more recent modern data/studies have clearly confirmed for a fact, that Amur tigers regularly prey on bears in some regions of the Russian far east, with adult bears being taken as well.
All in all, undeniable evidence proves that Siberian tigers regularly prey on both brown bears and black bears, and Vaillant reported the same thing based-off first hand info and interviews with expert authorities on tigers and bears in Russia.
And use your logic, if the overall percentage of bears in the Siberian tigers diet was just merely "2.2%", then there wouldn't be a whole ton of accounts throughout history of tigers killing and eating both brown bears and black bears. Recent peer-reviewed scientific reports and studies clearly prove that tigers killing bears happens on a regular basis, particularly during the summer months.
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reeper
Junior Member Rank 1
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Post by reeper on Oct 3, 2020 20:10:26 GMT 5
More recent evidence has now confirmed that even young, inexperienced juvenile tigers prey on adult bears, and kill adult brown bears.
A young, 2-year old tiger named 'Boris' hunted and killed an adult brown bear.
( First-hand info from the scientists and biologists )
Tiger Boris remained on the territory of the Amur Region. He repeatedly made forays into the Jewish Autonomous Region, but regularly returned to the place of release. Hoofed prey was not a problem for him. Once a case of hunting an adult brown bear was recorded.
tiger.sevin-expedition.ru/news/news_144.html
Both the young tiger "Boris" and young tigress "Svetlana" prey on ADULT bears....
The Amur tiger Borya, released in the taiga by President Vladimir Putin in May 2014, along with the tigress Svetlana prey on bears in the forests of the Zhuravliny Wildlife Sanctuary in the Jewish Autonomous Region, Newsru.com reports citing the Tiger Center public organization.
The audit showed that tigers not only successfully hunt wild boars and red deer, but also adult bears and moose. Specialists found at the site of the tiger meal the remains of very large individuals of moose at the age of three to four years.”
www.amur.info/news/2016/12/02/118653
www.newsru.com/russia/01dec2016/tigers.html
So its a confirmed fact now, that even juvenile tigers and tigresses easily prey on adult bears, and can and do kill adult brown bears.
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Post by brobear on Oct 3, 2020 21:59:49 GMT 5
Male tigers prey on bears. There are very few cases of a tigress killing a bear; and in these cases, not something the tigress would make a habit of. In fact, except for extremely rare cases, such as the infamous Dale ( the bear killer ), tigers do not go "bear hunting". An Amur tiger hunts mostly wild boar or red deer, and sometimes stumbles upon a juvenile bear. Nearly all brown bears killed by tigers are juvenile bears. But sometimes, a tiger will ambush and kill an adult she-bear. Every bear ambushed and killed by a tiger is smaller than the tiger. There is no recorded incident of a tiger ever killing a bear of equal size. There are no confirmed accounts of a tiger ever killing a mature male brown bear.
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reeper
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 11
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Post by reeper on Oct 4, 2020 17:27:18 GMT 5
Male tigers prey on bears. There are very few cases of a tigress killing a bear; and in these cases, not something the tigress would make a habit of. In fact, except for extremely rare cases, such as the infamous Dale ( the bear killer ), tigers do not go "bear hunting". An Amur tiger hunts mostly wild boar or red deer, and sometimes stumbles upon a juvenile bear. Nearly all brown bears killed by tigers are juvenile bears. But sometimes, a tiger will ambush and kill an adult she-bear. Every bear ambushed and killed by a tiger is smaller than the tiger. There is no recorded incident of a tiger ever killing a bear of equal size. There are no confirmed accounts of a tiger ever killing a mature male brown bear.
Recent scientific peer-reviewed studies from Dale Miquelle and others, prove that in some regions of the Russian far east, tigers heavily predate on bears, and the study also reports that adult bears are preyed upon as well.
You also stated: "An Amur tiger hunts mostly wild boar or red deer, and sometimes stumbles upon a juvenile bear."
No, this is wrong, Amur tigers actively seek out bears by following their trails in the forest. There are countless accounts and reports from experts proving this, and recent scientific evidence has confirmed that adult bears are hunted and killed by tigers far more often than was assumed before. Read all the evidence carefully, that was posted above.
And the tiger 'Dale' was NOT an "extremely rare case", Linda Kerley as well as other biologists have reported that some tigers become 'bear specialists' that hunt and kill nothing but bears, especially in the summer months, due to bear availability.
The study I posted above clearly stated that during the snow-free period (summer months) tigers were hunting and eating more bears than wild boars or deer.
And how do you know that every bear killed by a tiger is "smaller"? EVIDENCE??
It is well known that Dale killed four similar-sized brown bears, and another male tiger in August 2001, attacked and killed a large mature female brown bear weighing around 150 - 200 kg. These bears were around the same size and weight as the tigers who killed them.
It is also known that Amur tigers will even tackle bears larger than themselves, and tigresses are far more active in bear hunting than you assume. |
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reeper
Junior Member Rank 1
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Post by reeper on Oct 4, 2020 17:36:13 GMT 5
One male brown bear aged 3-4 years old was killed by a tiger, six adult female brown bears, ( Five of them - victims of a tiger ) and one 2 year old brown bear killed by a tiger. Of the eight Himalayan bears that were all victims of tigers, there were two adult males, one adult female and five bears with indeterminable sex. ( Two young adults and three full-grown adult bears ). Eight times the bears were killed by adult male tigers. ( Five times tigers killed brown bears and 3 times Himalayan bears. )
Prey: Manchurian wapiti, musk deer, goral, moose, red deer, Siberian roe deer, sika deer, wild boar, Asian black bear, Ussuri brown bear, rabbits, hares, pikas and salmon:
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Oct 4, 2020 19:24:55 GMT 5
 According to Seryodkin the brown bear consist only 5.4% of the tiger's diet at most. |
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reeper
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 11
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Post by reeper on Oct 4, 2020 19:30:16 GMT 5
According to Seryodkin the brown bear consist only 5.4% of the tiger's diet at most. |
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Post by brobear on Oct 4, 2020 19:39:23 GMT 5
Quote: And how do you know that every bear killed by a tiger is "smaller"? EVIDENCE??
*There are no confirmed reports of any bears killed as large as an adult tiger.
Quote: It is well known that Dale killed four similar-sized brown bears, and another male tiger in August 2001, attacked and killed a large mature female brown bear weighing around 150 - 200 kg.
*There were several estimates to the size of the she-bear killed by Dale in that ambush attack. The largest estimate was 440 pounds ( 200 kg ). But there were several estimates. Dale weighed 445 pounds. The she-bear probably under 400 pounds. And even after being ambushed, Dale had a difficult struggle with her.
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Post by brobear on Oct 8, 2020 19:56:31 GMT 5
I believe that this Kostoglod was speaking of Bengal tigers and sloth bears. Amur tigers generally prey upon juvenile brown bears and on occasion an adult she-bear. This in no way is beneficial to the bear population. However, not enough bears are taken by tigers to be a threat to any bear population either. The health or physical condition of the brown bear has nothing to do with the tiger's choosing. They stalk and ambush small bears.
Perhaps the Kostoglod idea holds true with Amur tigers and black bears in the Russian taiga?
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