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Post by dinosauria101 on Dec 21, 2019 18:43:03 GMT 5
What does outrunning a dragon have to do with anything in the fight? It could very well be that at some point, the dragon thinks it would expend too much energy on the person and decides to stop. Besides, we've seen what speed they are capable of.
And yes, fighting a leopard and buffalo is different. But there is 2 factors: The buffalo's better stamina, and its ability to kill the dragon with 1 hit, neither of which the leopard has.
How do you think the leopard can get behind without tiring or getting bitten? This is imo still a decent Komodo win.
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Post by ultimatium35 on Dec 21, 2019 23:16:38 GMT 5
The Buffalo looked like it was driving away the Komodo before it went back. Otherwise, these Buffalos rarely attack the Komodo. Also, when a Leopard pounces o on something, usually it doesn't let go.
I am not sure the Leopard's stamina will completely matter once it wrestles the Komodo and bites the head or neck.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Dec 22, 2019 0:06:15 GMT 5
The question is how fast can it get behind the Komodo? They're very explosive, fast, and agile in close quarters and a good majority of the time I see the leopard either getting bitten on its first attempt to outflank the Komodo, or evading the Komodo the first few times but failing to outflank it, tiring, and getting bitten. THAT's where the stamina comes into play.
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Jan 27, 2020 0:39:52 GMT 5
In all fairness, it IS subjective. Supporters of different animals would have differing opinions. What are you talking about?! Can a komodo dragon perform anything remotely comparable to those feats? It is FACTUAL that Leopard is leaps and bounds beyond Komodo dragon in all aspects of mobility. FACT 1: Leopard's top speed ~ 60km/h Komodo dragon's top speed ~ 20km/h FACT 2: Leopard's maximum vertical leap ~ 3m Komodo dragon's maximum vertical leap - unable to comply FACT 3: Leopard's maximum horizontal leap ~ 6m Komodo dragon's maximum horizontal leap - unable to comply FACT 4: Ability to jump straight up from a standing position : Leopard - yes Komodo dragon - no FACT 5: Ability to jump sideways: Leopard - yes Komodo dragon - no FACT 6: Abitly to use front legs for striking and grappling independently from establishing full body contact: Leopard - yes Komodo dragon - no Conclusion: No it is NOT subjective that Leopard is beyond comparison more capable animal in all aspects of mobility and body control. It is actually the very opposite from subjective - an irrefutable, objective, and obvious FACT. "Leopard wins because it can run faster and jump high" Also, "grappling" implies full body contact. In which case Ora are fully known and documented to use their forelimbs in doing so in intraspecific conflicts. From Auffenberg: "Fighting (between two adult males) is ritualized and nonritualized. Unlike many other lizard species, fighting in varanids, for whatever purpose, is often serious and leads to severe lacerations, or even death. Ritualized combat includes a face- of , sometimes of the head-over-shoulder type. One or both of the potential assailants may exhibit aggressive or even assertive displays. In some circumstances, a bipedal position may be assumed, followed by biting (Oesman, 1970) and probably forearm-grip (not seen, but assumed to occur on the basis of a ritualized fighting pattern in closely related species). Nonritualized fighting usually involves initial tongue-touch or licking, often followed by assertion or aggressive displays, at least on the part of one of the assailants. S uddenlythereafter, one of the combatants will lunge and bite, or the dominant member will paw thesubdominant one across the back. The subdominant individual will usually run away, andthe dominant one often will give chase, continually trying to paw the other.It is an incredibly ignorant thing to say they don't use their limbs in conflict.
You can also not imply that an ora is not a very mobile animal because it doesn't jump 6m up a tree to avoid other predators displacing it from a kill or to avoid conflict. That is an intellectually dishonest and basically ignorant thing to say. I'm also both amused and confused by your lines about top speeds; if this was a pertinent aspect, the cheetah would win nearly every conflict with a similarly sized carnivore....We all obviously know that isn't what happens. Anyway, regarding ora mobility, Adults navigate very steep rocky terrain with ease per Auffenberg's book:
"There is no correlation with size (r = 0.13). Large oras sometimes
resort to a slow trot that carries them over the ground at speeds of approximately 8-10
km/hr. We chased, on our motorcycles, an unidentified ora of about 2m total length for a
distance of slightly over 0.5 km. On the basis of odometer readings the ora maintained a
speed of slightly over 14 km/hr for the entire course. Oras move most rapidly (and at speeds probably greater than 18 km/hr) when frightened
on rocky hillsides particularly talus slopes composed of loose rocks. Here they may throw
themselves downslope, propelling themselves with their feet and sliding as much as
running down the steep inclines. Large oras may break shrubs of as much as 1.5 cm
diameter in this downward flight."
IF climbing up trees was a relevant aspect of anything, ora do this basically out of the egg, and are only encumbered doing so in their adulthood by their great weight and probably their morphology, but they still do it. An ora need not "jump to the side" at all, in this aspect they have been recorded quite capably outmanuevering their prey when it comes into a direct conflict (The rinca buffalo video as well as a video depicting a confrontation with a rusa deer show this much). I don't think an animal that routinely preys on animals its size and larger from young ages pales in comparison like you humorously try to imply on the merits of.....jumping
Edit: Oh delightful, there's so much more i can tear apart here.
Mmmmmm noone is "blinded" by anything, and even if they were, you're demonstrating a deliciously ironic stance on this, apparently "blinded" by your fanatacism of the leopard.That is, if we use your silly childish logic that you capably demonstrated in this throwaway line; that you simply cannot give credit to the dentition of the largest varanid in the world who is the apex predator of its domain; one that demonstrates (per the literature) its ability to bring down animals its size or larger from a relatively young age.
The prey of the ora doesn't fight back? The wild boar, rusa deer, and Buffalo have been documented killing or seriously maiming ora, in addition to leaving large wounds that heal on attacking ora. What a dishonest thing to say.
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Post by sam1 on Jan 28, 2020 16:33:00 GMT 5
..oh what a surprise.. An out of context, out of depth and ironic tirade of a reptile fanatic.
Like said already, I'm DONE discussing here, as I have presented and explained my arguments clearly and completely. Got better things to do than trying to talk sense into people that aren't willing to really read and understand.
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Post by kekistani on Jan 28, 2020 21:23:14 GMT 5
..oh what a surprise.. An out of context, out of depth and ironic tirade of a reptile fanatic. The irony is real in this post |
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Jan 29, 2020 2:02:22 GMT 5
..oh what a surprise.. An out of context, out of depth and ironic tirade of a reptile fanatic. Like said already, I'm DONE discussing here, as I have presented and explained my arguments clearly and completely. Got better things to do than trying to talk sense into people that aren't willing to really read and understand. Let me tear this apart too. They are your words, directly quoted and replied to. Nothing out of context. The only thing "out of depth" in this debate is your knowledge of the ora, let's call that a blatant lack of, actually. My comments are a direct rebuttal with scientific literature to your ludicrous saying and claims(especially the line about ora prey). The only thing close to a tirade is your response.....lol I like reptiles, i also like leopards, cheetahs, hyenas, sharks, etc. Nice poor attempt at discreding me. Laughable. Probably not even the worst part of your response though, sadly. I will reword this for you: "I have no rebuttal to the initial response so i will say i am done and have better things to do because i am out of my depth on this subject and need to weasel out of it". If someone replies to your "argument" that you "explained" that is called a rebuttal -- a response -- and in a *debate* you are supposed to, to your best ability, respond. You....with this, you did not even come within a mile of being close to doing that. If i wasn't willing to "read and understand" i would not have taken the time to arduously and carefully reply to the baffling claims you made. Seeing how you made the claim, especially in regard to ora prey 'not fighting back' (Verbatim, btw), and them made this incredibly fallacious and childish post, it seems you are the one unwilling to read and learn. That's just another deliciously ironic aspect of your post. Now if you want to take another L in that column, Come back any time, sweetcheeks. I will be way more than happy to oblige. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 2:59:33 GMT 5
..oh what a surprise.. An out of context, out of depth and ironic tirade of a reptile fanatic. Like said already, I'm DONE discussing here, as I have presented and explained my arguments clearly and completely. Got better things to do than trying to talk sense into people that aren't willing to really read and understand. Let me tear this apart too. They are your words, directly quoted and replied to. Nothing out of context. The only thing "out of depth" in this debate is your knowledge of the ora, let's call that a blatant lack of, actually. My comments are a direct rebuttal with scientific literature to your ludicrous saying and claims(especially the line about ora prey). The only thing close to a tirade is your response.....lol I like reptiles, i also like leopards, cheetahs, hyenas, sharks, etc. Nice poor attempt at discreding me. Laughable. Probably not even the worst part of your response though, sadly. I will reword this for you: "I have no rebuttal to the initial response so i will say i am done and have better things to do because i am out of my depth on this subject and need to weasel out of it". If someone replies to your "argument" that you "explained" that is called a rebuttal -- a response -- and in a *debate* you are supposed to, to your best ability, respond. You....with this, you did not even come within a mile of being close to doing that. If i wasn't willing to "read and understand" i would not have taken the time to arduously and carefully reply to the baffling claims you made. Seeing how you made the claim, especially in regard to ora prey 'not fighting back' (Verbatim, btw), and them made this incredibly fallacious and childish post, it seems you are the one unwilling to read and learn. That's just another deliciously ironic aspect of your post. Now if you want to take another L in that column, Come back any time, sweetcheeks. I will be way more than happy to oblige. Someone has wayy too much time on their hands |
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Jan 31, 2020 3:05:20 GMT 5
Oh thats deliciously ironic coming from the man who has several discord accounts. But anyway, Most people on internet forums do. Now if you continue to childishly make comments towards me, you're going to be better off running to the moderators, again, because we all know you can't keep up without crying harassment.
You do an awfully fantastic job of demonstrating you have zero worth to the discussion too.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 3:23:57 GMT 5
Pretty sure I'm not the only one with an alt ...
Think whatever you want If it makes you feel better about yourself I got homework
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Jan 31, 2020 3:25:14 GMT 5
Alright chief. Keep showing you have zero value here you're doing spiffy. Not even a good edit either. You are so bad at this it stings. But, if you want to try again, go to the thread in the member cafe instead of stinking this thread up with your daft nonsense. Thanks
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Post by ultimatium35 on Dec 13, 2020 14:00:40 GMT 5
The question is how fast can it get behind the Komodo? They're very explosive, fast, and agile in close quarters and a good majority of the time I see the leopard either getting bitten on its first attempt to outflank the Komodo, or evading the Komodo the first few times but failing to outflank it, tiring, and getting bitten. THAT's where the stamina comes into play. The Leopard stamina is low for changing prey. When killing an animal, it can take a pretty long time. For example, a Leopard took at least 15 minutes to kill this Wild Boar. youtu.be/rMZl0l8SEdAThis Jaguar killed a Caiman after a 20 minute battle. youtu.be/heNCQMIu8vU |
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Post by ultimatium35 on Dec 13, 2020 14:10:54 GMT 5
Sorry for the weird video edit.
Anyway, point is that it will take a long time for a determined Pantherine to kill a somewhat formidable animal compares to a short chase.
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