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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 18, 2020 2:31:58 GMT 5
They do have enough reach to get to the flanks, and when one creates a wound the others can attack there too. Not to mention, we've seen what they can do to rhinos Yes, but the main issue will be hanging on to the flanks and causing a significant wound.
While the killing of the Rhino is impressive, the elephant is much heavier, more intelligent, and is physically larger. It stands a better chance.
I believe that's not really the case - in fact, the elephant and crocs are very similar weight on average. And while it may be hard to get a grip, the many mouths can help. |
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Jan 18, 2020 3:49:03 GMT 5
5 527kg male nile crocodiles are monstrous, if that's the route you go i have some difficulty seeing how an elephant deals with that kind of thing.
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Post by kekistani on Jan 18, 2020 4:15:34 GMT 5
Yes, but the main issue will be hanging on to the flanks and causing a significant wound.
While the killing of the Rhino is impressive, the elephant is much heavier, more intelligent, and is physically larger. It stands a better chance.
I believe that's not really the case - in fact, the elephant and crocs are very similar weight on average. And while it may be hard to get a grip, the many mouths can help. No, they aren't-you list a weight of 2-3 tons for the elephant, which is 4X-6X the weight of the crocodiles. Having many mouths will help, but it's still going to take a long time for the crocodiles to do any severe damage. |
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Jan 18, 2020 4:21:13 GMT 5
I think he's referencing the combined weight of the 5 crocodiles, which even if you use 5 450kg animals, gives you a combined mass of 2250kg, or 2.25t of crocodile. Not the way i would think about it, but its his thought process i imagine.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 18, 2020 4:59:39 GMT 5
5 527kg male nile crocodiles are monstrous, if that's the route you go i have some difficulty seeing how an elephant deals with that kind of thing. This is actually where I got it from: academic.oup.com/jmammal/article/91/5/1280/903109. If this is reliable, the combined weight of the crocs is fairly similar to the mass of the elephant's mean shoulder height (~2.9 tonnes scaling down from P. namadicus). kekistani, yep. I meant together. |
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Jan 18, 2020 7:07:06 GMT 5
It has no detailed number pooling for where they got the 527kg figure, although this paper is cited on the wikipedia page for the claim of Limpopo males averaging this. Take it with a grain of salt.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 18, 2020 16:33:43 GMT 5
I suppose it should be regarded with due caution. However, it is fairly close to the mean weight of the given 220-750 kg range, so it's probably not unreasonable.
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Jan 20, 2020 6:02:05 GMT 5
Unless i did something wrong the mean of 220-750 is 485, which is like ~30kg more than the largest niles documented in Graham's thesis; those in the 4.46-4.75m length range (4.6m mean length) had a mean mass of 451kg. I really wouldn't use it at all, until there is a proper number pool to work with for this population. I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility, but again, i wouldn't use it either. I think 5 450kg bull nile crocodiles is a terrifying prospect for any animal to deal with, anyway to be honest.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 20, 2020 6:07:32 GMT 5
So closer to 450, but 527's not off the table? Sounds reasonable
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Jan 20, 2020 6:09:32 GMT 5
Indeed. There are claims of the Very southern niles being the very largest, than but i haven't really vetted this claim fully yet
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Post by kekistani on Jan 20, 2020 6:18:32 GMT 5
Indeed. There are claims of the Very southern niles being the very largest, than but i haven't really vetted this claim fully yet How big is Gustave estimated to be? |
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Jan 20, 2020 6:23:46 GMT 5
A crocodile of his reported length would weigh around a ton
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jan 20, 2020 6:27:54 GMT 5
CeratodromeusI might have asked you this some years ago, but do you think crocodiles are possibly on par with carnivorans (like cats or dogs) in cognition? Some people say they're smart for reptiles but not that smart, but honestly, what I've seen from them sounds like stuff I'd expect for a cooperative hunting mammalian carnivore today. Then again, that's just me.
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Jan 20, 2020 6:33:39 GMT 5
Ceratodromeus I might have asked you this some years ago, but do you think crocodiles are possibly on par with carnivorans (like cats or dogs) in cognition? Some people say they're smart for reptiles but not that smart, but honestly, what I've seen from them sounds like stuff I'd expect for a cooperative hunting mammalian carnivore today. Then again, that's just me. Absolutely, i think this is exemplified in the largest species, and in particular the Cuban crocodile. Are you familiar with Dinets' notes? he wrote some excellent material on this subject |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jan 20, 2020 6:54:18 GMT 5
Ceratodromeus I might have asked you this some years ago, but do you think crocodiles are possibly on par with carnivorans (like cats or dogs) in cognition? Some people say they're smart for reptiles but not that smart, but honestly, what I've seen from them sounds like stuff I'd expect for a cooperative hunting mammalian carnivore today. Then again, that's just me. Absolutely, i think this is exemplified in the largest species, and in particular the Cuban crocodile. Are you familiar with Dinets' notes? he wrote some excellent material on this subject There was his 2015 study, that I'm aware of. But I don't remember if I knew about Cuban crocodiles in particular. Any others that might be of interest? I guess people still think "smart for a reptile" isn't that smart, for some reason. |
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