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Post by velesoid on Feb 22, 2020 0:32:55 GMT 5
Alligator Gar  Richard Snow, Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation biologist, has been researching alligator gar for the past seven years. [ODWC Photo} Alligator gar are the largest species in the gar family, and among the largest freshwater fishes found in North America. Mature alligator gar commonly measure 6 ft (1.8 m) in length, and weigh over 100 lb (45 kg). However, anecdotal reports suggest they can grow up to 10 ft (3 m) in length, and weigh as much as 350 lb (159 kg).[7] The largest alligator gar officially recorded was inadvertently caught in the net of fisherman Kenny Williams of Vicksburg, Mississippi, while he was fishing the oxbow lakes of the Mississippi River on February 14, 2011. Williams was pulling up his net on Lake Chotard, expecting to find buffalo fish, but instead discovered a large alligator gar tangled in his net. The gar was 8 ft 5 1⁄4 in (2.572 m) long, weighed 327 lb (148 kg), and its girth was 47 in (120 cm). According to wildlife officials, the fish was estimated to be between 50 and 70 years old; one report estimated the gar's age to be at least 95. Goliath tigerfish (Hydrocynus goliath)   credit: science rumors Hydrocynus goliath, also known as the goliath tigerfish, giant tigerfish, or mbenga, is a very large African predatory freshwater fish of the family Alestidae. This large-toothed, highly predatory fish grows to a length of 1.5 metres (4.9 ft) and a weight of 50 kilograms (110 lb). Its teeth fit into distinct grooves along its jaws Hydrocynus goliath is a piscivore, feeding on any fish it can overpower, including smaller conspecifics. When hunting, this fish uses the calmer eddies of the rapids to ambush its prey, using its keen sight to detect prey. When a target is noticed, the fish accelerates to chase it down. |
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Post by kekistani on Feb 22, 2020 1:57:11 GMT 5
I would go with the gar here: On average it is larger, and while the TIgerfish has ferocious dentition the gar hunts large fish and has very tough armor plating.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Feb 22, 2020 3:09:23 GMT 5
I definitely favor the gar here as well. It does have a size advantage, bigger/longer jaws, and good armor, and overall the durability and greater damage potential on its part should be enough. Not a mismatch at all however; tigerfish have deadly jaws too and are quite fast and agile.
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Post by velesoid on Feb 22, 2020 3:50:14 GMT 5
I would go with the gar here: On average it is larger, and while the TIgerfish has ferocious dentition the gar hunts large fish and has very tough armor plating. ehhh, tiger fish reportedly hunts young crocs and large birds so i would not say that gar is more impressive in that regard keep in mind that gars have needle like teeth for keeping prey in place and those things do not cut very well, it cant dish out as much damage as the tigerfish that is for sure |
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Post by kekistani on Feb 22, 2020 4:16:10 GMT 5
I would go with the gar here: On average it is larger, and while the TIgerfish has ferocious dentition the gar hunts large fish and has very tough armor plating. Define "Young crocs", those range from arm length to around 4-5 feet. In terms of prey certainly, the tigerfish is more impressive, but the fact is that the gar hunts fish, and that is what it is fighting here; the gar also is far more impressive in terms of protection than any of the tigerfish' prey items. Main thing is that the teeth of the gar will cause damage to the tigerfish, especially if the tigerfish tries to struggle out. |
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Post by velesoid on Feb 22, 2020 4:53:47 GMT 5
Define "Young crocs", those range from arm length to around 4-5 feet. In terms of prey certainly, the tigerfish is more impressive, but the fact is that the gar hunts fish, and that is what it is fighting here; the gar also is far more impressive in terms of protection than any of the tigerfish' prey items.. jeremy wade did not specify the weight- and none of the fishes gar hunts are anywhere this large yes but tigerfish can win in 2-3 bites. it has a huge agility advantage over the gar do to living in powerful congo river turrets. gars mostly live in slow moving rivers and even stale waters |
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Post by kekistani on Feb 22, 2020 6:39:59 GMT 5
IK they hunt carp, and they get decently large, and weight isn't a concern with young crocs against chompers like these-i'm more interested in the length Yes, but the gar itself is an ambush predator that is actually quite mobile-they can turn and pivot very quickly. The most damage the tigerfish will be able to do is targeting the fins, thanks to the chainmail-plate coating the gar. The stuff is extremely hard and coats the entire fish, unlike the scutes of crocodiles. |
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Feb 22, 2020 7:05:09 GMT 5
Lots of predatory fish will eat young crocodiles, and as vague as that as ( hatchling, juvenile, age specific?) i realllyyyyy wouldn't try and use it as some impressive predatory feat. Also, regarding bird predation, alligator gar are also said to prey upon water fowl.
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Post by kekistani on Feb 22, 2020 7:07:29 GMT 5
Lots of predatory fish will eat young crocodiles, and as vague as that as ( hatchling, juvenile, age specific?) i realllyyyyy wouldn't try and use it as some impressive predatory feat. Also, regarding bird predation, alligator gar are also said to prey upon water fowl. Croc boi has entered the chat
And yeah, IIRC Nile perch eat young crocs and they don't have teeth at all
I've seen wallago try it on large water monitors (albeit unsuccesfully) and swallow small ones so I have little doubt they could also eat a decent sized young croc
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Post by velesoid on Feb 22, 2020 7:25:47 GMT 5
IK they hunt carp, and they get decently large, and weight isn't a concern with young crocs against chompers like these-i'm more interested in the length ehh carp varies in size, could be one third of goliaths weight at average weights we have a 45-50 kg gar against 30-40 kg goliath, not a huge difference i never said they are slow but there is just no way a gar can match tigerfish when it comes to speeding around (being an ambush predator means it has short bursts of speed), gars also kinda suck at dealing quick damage, their teeth are more crocodilian like if anything  just from looking at feeding videos they never really lacerate smaller fishes, merely hold and swallow dont know how hard gar scales are but these are some big chompers  |
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Feb 22, 2020 7:55:45 GMT 5
Lots of predatory fish will eat young crocodiles, and as vague as that as ( hatchling, juvenile, age specific?) i realllyyyyy wouldn't try and use it as some impressive predatory feat. Also, regarding bird predation, alligator gar are also said to prey upon water fowl. Croc boi has entered the chat
And yeah, IIRC Nile perch eat young crocs and they don't have teeth at all
I've seen wallago try it on large water monitors (albeit unsuccesfully) and swallow small ones so I have little doubt they could also eat a decent sized young croc
Indeed, Considering the largest representatives for the goliath tigerfish are ~5ft and ~50kg, this is rather a significant roof to what age demographic the reportedly predated crocodile would be in....at least in the case of a nile crocodile. They reportedly share the same vague area as slender snouted crocodiles and the dwarf crocodiles, which given the smaller body size of those respective species, makes it probably worse off to use it as a factor for the Goliath tiger fish. |
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Post by kekistani on Feb 22, 2020 8:17:30 GMT 5
ehh carp varies in size, could be one third of goliaths weight at average weights we have a 45-50 kg gar against 30-40 kg goliath, not a huge difference It's mainly the jaw strength and the thrashing of the prey itself that inflicts damage. *Crush and swallow. They tenderize it a bit before going for the coup de gras (swallowing it head first) Gar scales are absurdly strong-I handled a small specimen and the fish was goddam rigid. It feels like a very thick braided metal hose, and to pierce it you'd need a strong man with a robust metal spear or high-powered weaponry (bows with hunting tips, rifle bullets, shotgun slugs, heavy spear with a good thrower). I have no doubt about the power of the Mbenga's jaws, but the gar has to resist attacks from alligators . That should tell you something about the level of protection this fish has. Also, how wide to tigerfish jaws open, and how big around is the average gar? Gars are very round and in the end if the tiger does try for a body bite its jaws could end up slipping off if it can't get both around the gar |
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Post by velesoid on Feb 22, 2020 8:22:52 GMT 5
ehh carp varies in size, could be one third of goliaths weight at average weights we have a 45-50 kg gar against 30-40 kg goliath, not a huge difference It's mainly the jaw strength and the thrashing of the prey itself that inflicts damage. Being ambuah predator is irrelevant tho? This is a face to face fight and nothing really convinces me that gars have incredibly devastating bite. Strong hold for sure, but they are not shredding chunks of flesh away. Ehhh you are overestimating the scales a lot here. There is a video of an old guy menaging to pretty handily chop up a huge gar with somewhat small wood cutting axe. |
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Post by kekistani on Feb 22, 2020 8:32:48 GMT 5
It's not about the gar shredding the tigerfish, it's about the tigerfish shredding itself on the gar's teeth. On its own barb wire or a nailed board isn't going to cause scrapes and cuts, but if it catches you and you begin to struggle (or someone begins to shake it around) it will tear you up bad. The bite doesn't need to be incredibly devastating, it just needs to be enough to injure the tigerfish. If it takes a ""Somewhat small" wood cutting axe to butcher a fish I think that's significant. Furthermore, butchering a gar for consumption usually means skinning the animal, and there are usually 2 ways to start:A. Getting a start from the tail-end (usually the dorsal fin) and working toward the head, as that allows you to get under the scalesB. Pierce the gar right behind the head and work the blade backwards Both of which aren't real options for the tigerfish. I speak from what I have experienced with gar: the ******s are tough as hell. |
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Post by velesoid on Feb 22, 2020 8:44:07 GMT 5
It's not about the gar shredding the tigerfish, it's about the tigerfish shredding itself on the gar's teeth. On its own barb wire or a nailed board isn't going to cause scrapes and cuts, but if it catches you and you begin to struggle (or someone begins to shake it around) it will tear you up bad. The bite doesn't need to be incredibly devastating, it just needs to be enough to injure the tigerfish. Both of which aren't real options for the tigerfish. I speak from what I have experienced with gar: the B*****s are tough as hell. But that wont happen? The teeth are super small, not enough to do major damage even with trashing and the gar is not catching the tigerfish. While true the tigerfish has daggerlike teeth. If it has -high- bite force relative to its body weight it might be able to get through |
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