Ussuri Brown Bear vs Siberian Tiger

[brobear]

1913: LARGE BROWN BEAR CRUSHED A TIGER IN THE WILD (ABRAMOV, 1962). 
 
                                                      

[brobear]

IN THE WILD, THERE ARE ALSO RECORDS OF BEARS KILLING TIGERS, INCLUDING FULLY GROWN ADULT MALES.   
   
                

[brobear]

RUSSIAN BIOLOGIST VSEVOLOD SYSOEV WITNESSED 4 FIGHTS BETWEEN ADULT MALES, THE BEAR WON 2 TIMES, THE TIGER 1 TIME, AND IN 1 CASE THEY PARTED WAYS. HERE IS HIS RECREATION FOR HIS BOOK “AMBA”
                                                                            

[brobear]

THE SIBERIAN TIGER PROJECT CHAPTER 19:
12 KNOWN CASES OF BROWN BEARS KILLING AND EATING TIGERS IN THE WILD, INCLUDING 6 ADULTS.
 
              

[brobear]

RUSSIAN BIOLOGIST ALEXANDER BATALOV SAYS TIGERS DONT WANT ANY CONFLICT AND SIMPLY TRY TO AVOID LARGE BEARS.  
   

[brobear]

www.wikiwand.com/en/Asian_black_bear

Black bears are usually safe from tiger attacks once they reach five years of age. Although black bears prefer to avoid tigers, they can be extremely tenacious when attacked: Jim Corbett observed a fight between a tiger and the largest black bear he had ever seen, which resulted in the bear managing to chase off the tiger, despite having half its nose and scalp torn off. However, black bears may be less vulnerable than brown bears to tiger predation, due to their habit of living in hollows or in close set rocks, thus making them harder to pursue. At least one fatal attack on a juvenile bear has been recorded in Jigme Dorji National Park, as Bhutan's tiger populations have begun to colonise higher altitude areas. Black bears may steal tiger kills: Jim Corbett twice saw black bears carry off tiger kills when the latter was absent.

[brobear]

BIG HIMALAYAN BLACK BEAR DISPLACED A BIG MALE TIGER FROM ITS KILL. WITNESSED BY THE FAMOUS HUNTER AND NATURALIST JIM CORBETT.  
  

[brobear]

7 TIGERS KILLED BY BEARS IN THE PRIMORSKY KRAI AND KHABAROVSKY KRAI IN THE PERIOD 1985-1996. 
 

[brobear]

Many years ago, dismembered carcasses of tigers were discovered on Siberian snows. Naturalists and scientists were intrigued. the tigers were hunted by SHATUN bears.
 

[brobear]

BIG BROWN BEAR KILLS MALE TIGER.
 
                                                                                          

[mountainlord]

Nov 6, 2019 19:28:07 GMT 5 brobear said:

You keep saying tiger wins most fights - show me just one.

You posted an account of a young IMMATURE 3 year old tiger that was killed by a large brown bear. LOL...Whats that supposed to prove??

Show you one account?? Don't worry boy....I'm gonna show you plenty, way more than yours! Just wait....

I'm busy right now, I'll be back later and I'll post them. 

[brobear]

Tigers are full-time predators. Where bears are concerned, an Amur tiger hunts juvenile bears. On rare occasion, because of her smaller size, a grizzly she-bear can be mistaken for a juvenile. Dale, the famous "bear-killer" was a big male 445 pound tiger. He was collared and known to have acquired an unusual taste for bear flesh. Of all the many bears he killed, only two were adult and both of them she-bears. Each of them gave the tiger a difficult fight, even though they were taken by ambush.
A hungry grizzly does not go tiger-hunting. There are much better tasting foods to be had. The most likely place a grizzly might fight a tiger is on a kill site. But even there a fight would be extremely rare. Probably much less than one-out-of-ten tigers will attempt to defend his kill from a mature male grizzly.
There are no ( zero - zilch ) confirmed accounts of a tiger ever defeating a full grown male grizzly in a fight - even in an ambush attack.
I will edit and add: even a sloth bear female in the 200 pound range can successfully defend herself from a male Bengal tiger in the 400 pound range. A grizzly is not only stronger and smarter than a tiger but also a better fighter. 
   
*In all honesty, this debate ended years ago.

[Life]

A well-documented fight for reference.



A sloth bear (female) fought an aggressive Tiger (male?) for like 15 minutes and managed to drive the Tiger away, saving her cub in the process.

This fight is very telling.

Bears can definitely hold their own against other large predators, and some of the largest bears (male) are expected to be beyond any Tiger's capacity to handle in a fight.

Greatest/strongest predatory cat is lion (Panthera lio). No terrestrial predator stand a chance against an experienced adult lion (male) in a fight; only an adult elephant or giraffe might manage to escape due to sheer size factor.

[mountainlord]

Brobear, in all honesty, you were finished and destroyed in this debate, years ago on the old AVA forums! Remember?....Anyways, here's all the fight statistics that confirm and clearly show the tigers superiority over the Brown bear in a fight to the death. These accounts expose all the nonsense you claim.

Note, these fight statistics are documented by renowned Russian authorities/biologists. Far more credible accounts than the old, unreliable CAPTIVE accounts that Kodiak and Brobear spam out of desperation.

Russian biologist states that - AS A RULE - the tiger defeats the Brown bear in a fight.

Translation:

Timofei Bazhenov - "I'm often asked, if the tiger meets the brown bear in the taiga, who will win then? As a rule, the tiger wins. But it occurs a Brown bear may win if it is big."



A Russian authority outright states that as a rule (In most cases) the tiger will defeat a Brown bear in a fight. He states that a Brown bear may have a chance of winning if it is a large bear, but thats it. But in general, the tiger is superior and wins most fights.

This is very, very conclusive evidence in favour of the tiger.

44 head-on fights between tigers and Brown bears

It is known that out of 44 cases of fights between tigers and brown bears - 50% ended with the death of the bears, 27% in the death of the tiger:



translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&ei=yhlkSsf9KeOgjAf4r7zvDw&hl=en&nv=1&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwcs%2Brussia%2Btiger%2Bmonograph%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&u=https://russia.wcs.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/Download.aspx%3FEntryId%3D3252%26PortalId%3D32%26DownloadMethod%3Dattachment&xid=17259

This source is referring to those 44 fights between tigers and Brown bears: - 22 Brown bears killed by tigers, and only 12 tigers killed by Brown bears:



www.bearbiology.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/IBN_High_November_2011.pdf

Tigers won and dominated in fights, 22 - 12 over kill disputes.

Thats already 22 Brown bears slaughtered by tigers in face-to-face fights. Now here's many more additional accounts!...

From Russian biologist/authority - Rukovsky - "In The Footsteps of Forest Animals."

Rukovsky interviewed 42 local Russian hunters about tigers vs brown bears, and here's what they had to say....

"To clarify the relationship between these two predators, I interviewed 42 local hunters, old-timers Primorsky Krai. Of these, 7 people responded that the tiger specifically hunts for a bear; one man said that the bear walks in the footsteps of a tiger, collecting the remnants of its food; ( Scavenging left-overs ) 14 described the tiger-bear fights without a tragic outcome; 2 remembered when a bear strangled a tiger; 11 claimed that the tiger killed the bear, and, finally, 2 hunters assured that the bear leaves the grounds where the tiger appeared."

"Fights between large tigers and brown bears occur only in the hungry years, unfavorable for the bear in relation to food, when the connecting rods collide with tigers near the preyed animals. And only in rare cases can a tiger become a victim."

www.piterhunt.ru/Library/rukovskiy/po_sledam_lesnih_zverey/9.htm

First-hand testimonies from experienced hunters prove that tigers win far more fights against Brown bears than vice versa. Only two hunters knew of a case where a Brown bear killed a tiger, whereas ELEVEN hunters reported a case of a tiger killing a Brown bear in a fight. Rukovsky stated that in fights between tigers and Brown bears, only in RARE cases the tiger loses.

Tigers completely dominated the Brown bears - 11 - 2 in fights.

This is also backed up by this journal, which documents all the recorded fights between tigers and Brown bears in the wild, from Russian biologists, naturalists, hunters. locals etc....

"S.P. Kucherenko notes that the average tiger is always stronger than the average bear"

"But indeed from the scientific literature it follows that the tiger not only is NOT inferior to the bear, but even more frequently it leaves as conqueror"

shish02.livejournal.com/7269.html?thread=55909

More references from Russian authority S.P Kucherenko, which proves the tigers supremacy over the Brown bear:

"Of the animals, only a large brown bear can overpower him, but young, not yet strong tigers or cubs are more likely to be victims. An adult male tiger will not be taken even by a large bear. On the contrary, it was necessary to meet large bears killed and eaten by the tiger. The average tiger is always stronger than the average bear. Of the 17 reliable cases I know of tiger fights with a brown bear in Sikhote Alin between 1965-1976, eight animals dispersed, six times the tiger killed the bear and three defeated a bear."

Tiger - S.P. Kucherenko 1985

Out of 17 reliably recorded fights between tigers and Brown bears, not a single tiger was killed. Six Brown bears were killed and three other bears were defeated by the tiger.

The tiger completely dominated the fights - 9 - 0. With not a single tiger casualty!

"Tiger and Brown bear contractions are quite common. A tiger in the prime of life always crushes a bear, but not yet strong tigresses die from it. Of the 44 reliably recorded fights, the initiative in the attack belonged to a bear at thirteen, a tiger at nine (at 22 the instigator’s cases could not be determined); fourteen bears and eight tigers were killed; in 22 cases, the fighters broke up and received wounds of varying degrees."

Amur tiger - S.P. Kucherenko 1994

Tigers won 14 - 8 in fights.

From one of the leading Amur tiger biologists - John Goodrich

In an interview to the BBC Wildlife Magazine, he stated that in his work, he's found many Brown bears that were killed by tigers in fights:



books.google.co.uk/books?id=GJhFAQAAIAAJ&q=in+my+work+i+have+found+many+bears+killed+by+tigers&dq=in+my+work+i+have+found+many+bears+killed+by+tigers&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjvmqvD-5_iAhXZTxUIHbQgCksQ6AEIKjAA

Note - He states that from the tracks, he could tell the battle was impressive. This clearly indicates that these were fights, and not ambushes where the bears were quickly dispatched. It also proves that Brown bears are killed quite often by tigers in face-to-face fights.

So thats many Brown bears killed by tigers in fights.

Here's by far one of the best accounts regarding Amur tigers vs Brown bears, from John Vaillant:

John Vaillant actually went to the Russian far east and interviewed many top authorities regarding tigers and bears, from renowned biologists (Dale Miquelle, J.Goodrich included) as well as other Russian biologists, hunters, natives, naturalists, locals, forest rangers etc..and they all told him that the tiger dominates the Brown bear and regularly attacks, kills and eats them. He was even told that tigers kill bears solely on principle, and will pick fights with Brown bears and tear them apart.

"This is a book about Russians and their tigers, and much of the information in it comes from Russian sources, including many interviews."

books.google.co.uk/books?id=WGvVohmSYXcC&pg=PT305&lpg=PT305&dq=dale+miquelle+on+john+vaillants+book&source=bl&ots=mHvGgqTB-d&sig=CaRAJvAaHADHkFi96um7djScTBQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwip5_jywdvcAhUDCxoKHdmsARAQ6AEINDAC#v=onepage&q=dale%20miquelle%20on%20john%20vaillants%20book&f=false

Tigers attack, kill and eat both Brown bears and Black bears on a regular basis. Russian Brown bears can reach 1000lbs in weight, in spite of this, they've been known to flee at the sight of a tiger. Tigers will pick fights with Brown bears - prosecute the battles - and tear the bears apart, limb from limb!..



Male tigers are vicious, vindictive and vengeful beasts, and will even kill bears solely on principle! ( Based on the observations of hunters and biologists )



books.google.co.uk/books?dq=lev+kaplanov+very+large+brown+bear&hl=en&id=WGvVohmSYXcC&lpg=PT142&ots=mHuKcoWv-l&pg=PT142&sa=X&sig=cy1vjRvW9TKntaVAOgKAUvmPp6A&source=bl&ved=0ahUKEwjd8dHA3qDbAhUMKsAKHSARDqAQ6AEIQjAI#v=onepage&q=lev%20kaplanov%20very%20large%20brown%20bear&f=false

Here's a video of John Vaillant talking about the tigers dominance over the Russian grizzly bear. He's asked about tigers vs big Russian bears/Grizzly bears, and he states the following - "The tiger has a inborn sense of total dominance over its domain. Russian brown bears are the equivalent of our Grizzly, the tiger attacks, kills and eats them on regular basis."

Everything Vaillant stated in his book was based off first-hand authentic accounts and testimonies from all the TOP AUTHORITIES on this subject. Vaillant was also told that tigers will even pick fights with Brown bears and tear the bears apart, limb from limb to the point where the bears appendages are scattered across the battle ground! This shows clear dominance from the tiger, period.

Here's some more additional accounts of tigers killing Brown bears in fights:

Tiger killed a Brown bear after a 20-minute battle - Bears fled from tigers when tigers returned to their kills:

The Amur Tiger - by Yury Dunishenko and Alexander Kulikov

Tiger kills a large brown bear in a fight

"We heard one story about how a large brown bear having taken on a wild boar and covered it with scat and brushwood to make some “stewed boar, bear style,” suddenly got paid a visit by a hungry tiger. Oh how much blood got shed! The owner of the kill died from terrible wounds."

www.wf.ru/tiger/book/The%20Amur%20Tiger.pdf

Account from the great Russian traveler “N.M. Przhevalsky”, from his book - Travels in Ussuri region

Tiger kills a bear in a fight

“The tiger also does not live in a special friendship with the bear, and the hunters told me that once they found a place where two of these animals fought. Both of them clutched near the top of the mountain and rolled down, leaving a wide trail over the grass and bushes, there was no doubt that it was the tiger and the bear that fought. So these animals rolled a few hundred steps. Finally, the tiger crushed the bear."

az.lib.ru/p/przhewalxskij_n_m/text_0050.shtml

Tiger killed a Brown bear in a fight

Russian text book scan - reporting a fight between a tiger and a brown bear, in which the tiger killed the bear.

A hunter from Vladivostok saw crows circling in the forest. He followed them and found a place where a tiger and a bear had fought, and he found the body of the bear that was killed by the tiger. The tiger had gone before he arrived on the scene:

 
Undisputable proof from biologists and experts shows that the tiger dominates the brown bear in head-on battles, and is the usual winner in a fight to the death.

There's not a single fight statistic showing Brown bears having the upper-hand over tigers, not one. That speaks volumes to the tigers supremacy over the Brown bear. Any unbiased and neutral observer would clearly see the tigers blatant dominance and superiority in a fight against a Brown bear. Russian authorities, undisputed experts, accounts, statistics and expert testimonies all clearly prove and confirm the tiger is superior and is the general winner in a fight to the death.

And this is exactly why the Amur tiger is widely regarded by the Russians and indigenous peoples, as the undisputed LORD AND MASTER of the Ussuri taiga.

Brobear, all you did is spam the same accounts from "Kodiak" which I've already debunked, exposed and addressed in one of my previous posts!

I defy you to show me just one single fight statistic, reported by actual Russian biologists/authorities, which favour the Brown bear over the tiger??

You have to desperately resort to posting very old, unreliable captive accounts, accounts of large brown bears killing young immature tigers, illogical accounts based on hearsay and some outright fake accounts too. Because you barely have any real proof from credible sources, period.

So yeah, this debate ended years ago, when you were destroyed on AVA. 

[mountainlord]

Nov 6, 2019 20:14:26 GMT 5 brobear said:

Tigers are full-time predators. Where bears are concerned, an Amur tiger hunts juvenile bears. On rare occasion, because of her smaller size, a grizzly she-bear can be mistaken for a juvenile. Dale, the famous "bear-killer" was a big male 445 pound tiger. He was collared and known to have acquired an unusual taste for bear flesh. Of all the many bears he killed, only two were adult and both of them she-bears. Each of them gave the tiger a difficult fight, even though they were taken by ambush.
A hungry grizzly does not go tiger-hunting. There are much better tasting foods to be had. The most likely place a grizzly might fight a tiger is on a kill site. But even there a fight would be extremely rare. Probably much less than one-out-of-ten tigers will attempt to defend his kill from a mature male grizzly.
There are no ( zero - zilch ) confirmed accounts of a tiger ever defeating a full grown male grizzly in a fight - even in an ambush attack.
I will edit and add: even a sloth bear female in the 200 pound range can successfully defend herself from a male Bengal tiger in the 400 pound range. A grizzly is not only stronger and smarter than a tiger but also a better fighter. 
   
*In all honesty, this debate ended years ago.

Lies, lies, lies, lies and more blatant lies! You haven't got a clue about tiger predation on bears. Dale killed FOUR adult female Brown bears, not two! Misha (A different tiger) was the one that killed two large adult female Brown bears that were equal in size to him. Get your facts right.

Here's the account about Misha, that had NO TROUBLE in killing two equal-sized adult Brown bears:



www.nfwf.org/finalreports1/9144_1998-0093-056.03.pdf

Dale killed four large adult female Brown bears. In two of the cases, it turned into a full-frontal fight, but still, he ended up killing and eating both bears!

Now, here's another tiger, that killed another similar-sized adult female Brown bear in a fight: 



Thats SEVEN large adult female Brown bears killed by tigers. - Four by Dale, two by Misha and one by another tiger!

And tigers REGULARLY predate on Brown bears and Black bears. And they will regularly hunt and kill full-grown adult MALE Black bears, usually with no problems! Even adult male Black bears are well known to FLEE UP TREE'S just by sensing a tigers presence.

Here's a thread I made which exposes and debunks all your lies that you spam about tiger predation on bears:

www.tapatalk.com/groups/animalfightclub/tigers-dominate-kill-and-eat-bears-t81.html