Carcharodon
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Post by Carcharodon on Dec 27, 2013 11:01:20 GMT 5
Deinosuchus rugosus
Deinosuchus is an extinct genus related to the alligator that lived 73 to 80 Ma (million years ago), during the late Cretaceous period. The name translates as "terrible crocodile" and is derived from the Greek deinos ( ), "terrible", and soukhos (), "crocodile". The first remains were discovered in North Carolina (United States) in the 1850s; the genus was named and described in 1909. Additional fragments were discovered in the 1940s and were later incorporated into an influential, though inaccurate, skull reconstruction at the American Museum of Natural History. Knowledge of Deinosuchus remains incomplete, but better cranial material found in recent years has expanded scientific understanding of this massive predator. Although Deinosuchus was larger than any modern crocodile or alligator—measuring up to 8 metres (26 feet) and weighing up to 2.5 tons—in overall appearance it was fairly similar to its smaller relatives. It had large, robust teeth that were built for crushing, and its back was covered with thick hemispherical osteoderms. One study indicates that Deinosuchus may have lived for up to 50 years, growing at a rate similar to that of modern crocodilians, but maintaining this growth over a much longer period of time. Deinosuchus was probably capable of killing and eating large dinosaurs. It may have also fed upon sea turtles, fish, and other aquatic and terrestrial prey.
Liopleurodon ferox Liopleurodon is a genus of large, carnivorous marine reptile belonging to the Pliosauroidea, a clade of short-necked plesiosaurs. Two species of Liopleurodon lived during the Callovian stage of the Middle Jurassic Period (c. 160 to 155 mya), while the third, L. rossicus, lived during the Late Jurassic. It was the apex predator of the Middle to Late Jurassic seas that covered Europe. The largest species, L. ferox, is estimated to have grown up to 6.39 metres (21.0 ft) in length. Four strong paddle-like limbs suggest that Liopleurodon was a powerful swimmer. Its four-flipper mode of propulsion is characteristic of all plesiosaurs. A study involving a swimming robot has demonstrated that although this form of propulsion is not especially efficient, it provides very good acceleration - a desirable trait in an ambush predator. An adult L. ferox would have averaged 5–7 metres (16–23 ft) long. The normal weight range was from about a quarter to three quarters of a ton, and up to around 2.5 tons for the biggest animals.  |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Dec 27, 2013 19:02:37 GMT 5
At parity, I'll favor Liopleurodon by a slight margin due to it being more adapted to being in the water.
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Post by Godzillasaurus on Dec 27, 2013 23:01:21 GMT 5
Liopleurodon takes this easily... This matchup would need to take place in open water and would thus give the pliosaur and immediate advantage. Given the fact that it too had very powerful jaws, and had particularly robust spike-like dentition (which was triangular in cross section); a single bite could likely penetrate the crocodilian's osteoderms and cause spinal trauma.
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Carcharodon
Junior Member
Allosauroidea Enthusiast
Posts: 211
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Post by Carcharodon on Dec 27, 2013 23:33:31 GMT 5
Liopleurodon wins.
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Post by creature386 on Jan 3, 2014 17:58:21 GMT 5
A 7 m one might win (when taking McHenry's estimate for a 5 m Liopleurodon, such a specimen would very likely have a decent weight advantage), but you have to remember that this is the upper end. The Peterborough Liopleurodon is likely closer to the average. At parity, I agree with the posters above.
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Post by Runic on Jan 4, 2014 7:42:20 GMT 5
Did it ever occur to anyone that in order to bite deinosuchus you must get in its range of attack? Deinosuchus wasn't slow to the point it'd be unable to explode in a short burst and catch the lio coming in to bite. Added to how it's more armoured and such in short at equal weights the deino takes a chunk out the lio
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jan 4, 2014 9:16:32 GMT 5
I (and I'm sure the others too) never necessarily denied Deinosuchus could catch the pliosaur in a short burst when it comes to attack, it's just that Liopleurodon could be a bit faster given it's 100% adapted to living in deep water (where I'm assuming this fight takes place).
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Post by Runic on Jan 10, 2014 8:25:44 GMT 5
I (and I'm sure the others too) never necessarily denied Deinosuchus could catch the pliosaur in a short burst when it comes to attack, it's just that Liopleurodon could be a bit faster given it's 100% adapted to living in deep water (where I'm assuming this fight takes place). So? Are you referring to agility? Cause "faster" relates to running speed. It takes more agility effort to dart in and bite a large part of deinosuchus than for the latter to just lunge at the lio whenever it tries to come in for a bite. This whole "adaptability" thing is way too overexaggerated. Because by that logic a dolphin should beat a crocodile in the open ocean. Completely pointless advantage unless its radically superior. |
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Post by creature386 on Jan 10, 2014 19:04:07 GMT 5
Considering that Richard forest once stated that Pliosaurus likely were better adapted to biting than crocodiles ( www.plesiosaur.com/plesiosaurs/liopleurodon.php ) and that Liopleurodon likely would have the larger skull at parity, I believe it could even go for the osteoderms. |
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Post by theropod on Jan 10, 2014 20:51:45 GMT 5
I think what dinopithecus meant to say was simply that Liopleurodon would be more mobile in open water, and thus be quicker when it came to attacking...
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Post by Runic on Jan 10, 2014 22:46:43 GMT 5
Considering that Richard forest once stated that Pliosaurus likely were better adapted to biting than crocodiles ( www.plesiosaur.com/plesiosaurs/liopleurodon.php ) and that Liopleurodon likely would have the larger skull at parity, I believe it could even go for the osteoderms. I wasn't talking about biting. Even then, I don't see where you drew that conclusion from the link you posted. |
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Post by Runic on Jan 10, 2014 22:48:07 GMT 5
I think what dinopithecus meant to say was simply that Liopleurodon would be more mobile in open water, and thus be quicker when it came to attacking... It takes less energy to counter attack then to attack and escape before you get bitten. Unless lio is vastly more agile then it isn't going to be biting the crocodile without getting bit itself. |
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Post by creature386 on Jan 10, 2014 23:31:22 GMT 5
Considering that Richard forest once stated that Pliosaurus likely were better adapted to biting than crocodiles ( www.plesiosaur.com/plesiosaurs/liopleurodon.php ) and that Liopleurodon likely would have the larger skull at parity, I believe it could even go for the osteoderms. I wasn't talking about biting. Even then, I don't see where you drew that conclusion from the link you posted. I am aware of this, I just wanted to say that Liopleurodon probably won't need to outmaneuver Deinosuchus either, because it too could bite anywhere (I remember you used the armor of Deinosuchus as an argument. Sure, it has to be considered, but it's not insurmountable for Lio). I drew my conclusions from the "So how powerful were big pliosaurs?" section and from this thread (sorry, I forgot to link it): theworldofanimals.proboards.com/thread/32/highest-bites-forces-animal-kingdom |
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Post by spinodontosaurus on Jan 10, 2014 23:46:16 GMT 5
I think what dinopithecus meant to say was simply that Liopleurodon would be more mobile in open water, and thus be quicker when it came to attacking... It takes less energy to counter attack then to attack and escape before you get bitten. Unless lio is vastly more agile then it isn't going to be biting the crocodile without getting bit itself. The same logic absolutely applies to Deinosuchus too, but in the face of a fully aquatic adversary that possessed four flippers that are believed to be specifically utilised in increased manoeuvrability, it isn't hard to see which combatant will have the easiest time landing a bite, and avoiding a counter bite. |
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Post by Runic on Jan 11, 2014 2:55:22 GMT 5
I wasn't talking about biting. Even then, I don't see where you drew that conclusion from the link you posted. I am aware of this, I just wanted to say that Liopleurodon probably won't need to outmaneuver Deinosuchus either, because it too could bite anywhere (I remember you used the armor of Deinosuchus as an argument. Sure, it has to be considered, but it's not insurmountable for Lio). I drew my conclusions from the "So how powerful were big pliosaurs?" section and from this thread (sorry, I forgot to link it): theworldofanimals.proboards.com/thread/32/highest-bites-forces-animal-kingdom I never said anything about the armour being impenetrable either. I just said it would help. Don't know where the extra stuff is coming from. |
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