guategojira
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Now I become death, the destroyer of worlds!
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Post by guategojira on Apr 8, 2014 7:53:11 GMT 5
Here is some data on gorilla:   Also, I have found this image, don't know how accurate it is, but is interesting.  |
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blaze
Paleo-artist 
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Post by blaze on Apr 8, 2014 8:14:16 GMT 5
Thanks. That's why I prefer dealing with bones rather than weights since a larger bone all else being equal means a larger animal while there's a lot of things that affect the weight of a live animal. I still think gorillas over 180cm are extremely rare and huge which is also what I gathered from the pages you posted but that is only my opinion. btw the 196cm record, is not the one mentioned by Wood to have probably been 170cm tall? or is another individual said to be equally tall?
Blackbacks, I thought they were young adults but if still growing adolescents are included then I can see how they can affect even the height average.
They probably aren't and considering they're mostly herbivores, one could expect the weight of the food in their guts to be substantial, for example there's an study on hippos from the '60s I forgot the citation right now but I mentioned it here in another thread, the plant matter in their guts accounted for 25% of their weight.
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guategojira
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Now I become death, the destroyer of worlds!
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Post by guategojira on Apr 8, 2014 9:53:18 GMT 5
About the male of 196 cm, according with Wood (1978), there is a male that measured 196 cm hunted in Angumu Forest in the eastern Congo, had a chest girth of 166 cm and a arm span of only 249 cm, which will produce a height of only 170 cm. However, this seems not to be the male of 219 kg. Wood (1978) only mention its weight, but Carwardine (2008) states a height of 195 cm (6 ft 5 in; better translated to 196 cm, if you ask me) and a arm span of 270 cm. Check the image:  However, there is the inconsistency of the name of the hunter: "Commander Gatti" in Wood (1978) and "Commander Hubbert and Dr Freckhof" in Carwardine (2008). However, it was hunted in the same place: Tchibinda Forest, Congo. It is also possible, that these where two different gorillas, but I doubt that two such records could exits. Interesting is that Gerad Wood (1978) believe that the tallest accurately measured male gorilla was one male of 188 cm (6 ft 2 in) and a chest of 152 cm, killed by Alexander Barns (1923) in Mt Karisimbi, Congo. Even then, Groves (1966) seems to accept another large male of 196 cm, and if we assume that all the extreme measurements belong to it, this male had a chest girth of 160 cm and an arm span of 270 cm (probably the weight of 209 kg could belong to it, see Williamson & Butynski (2013) for reference). |
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Post by creature386 on Apr 8, 2014 18:19:21 GMT 5
Not trying to nitpick, but why did one of your sources translate quarter of a ton in 200 kg? What is meant, 200 or 250 kg? Based on isometric scaling from a 1.7 m and 150 kg gorilla (that's what I got from your data), 250 kg is closer to the size of a 2 m gorilla. Even though at 2.13 m, it may be rather 300 kg.
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guategojira
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Now I become death, the destroyer of worlds!
Posts: 160
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Post by guategojira on Apr 9, 2014 7:43:57 GMT 5
Not trying to nitpick, but why did one of your sources translate quarter of a ton in 200 kg? What is meant, 200 or 250 kg? Based on isometric scaling from a 1.7 m and 150 kg gorilla (that's what I got from your data), 250 kg is closer to the size of a 2 m gorilla. Even though at 2.13 m, it may be rather 300 kg. My mistake, the image say "a fifth of a ton", not a "quarter", so the figure of 200 kg is the correct one. Even then, the gorilla is certainly no 7 ft tall, that is just an exaggeration. The largest gorilla reliably recorded was of 196 cm tall and 219 kg. Figures over these maximum limits came from, apparently, unreliable sources. |
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guategojira
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Now I become death, the destroyer of worlds!
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Post by guategojira on Apr 9, 2014 8:34:12 GMT 5
For problems in my Photobucket account, I erased the resent images about Gorillas that I posted in my last posts.
I will put them again in a next opportunity. Sorry for the inconvenient.
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Weasel
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Post by Weasel on Apr 21, 2014 8:23:42 GMT 5
You need a bigger primate the 60kg size advantage is actually not enough considering this is primate vs feline
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 0:22:37 GMT 5
Jaguar wins, many people think Gorillas can outmuscle felids like those because they are apes, maybe look at a Jaguar's muscular system? Leopard predation on Gorillas is also a good argument, I have never seen any accounts of Gorillas killing an attacking Leopard either.
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pckts
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Post by pckts on May 6, 2014 2:19:40 GMT 5
Jaguar wins, many people think Gorillas can outmuscle felids like those because they are apes, maybe look at a Jaguar's muscular system? Leopard predation on Gorillas is also a good argument, I have never seen any accounts of Gorillas killing an attacking Leopard either. You have also never seen a single verified account of a leopard killing a black back or silver back gorilla. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 2:34:08 GMT 5
Jaguar wins, many people think Gorillas can outmuscle felids like those because they are apes, maybe look at a Jaguar's muscular system? Leopard predation on Gorillas is also a good argument, I have never seen any accounts of Gorillas killing an attacking Leopard either. You have also never seen a single verified account of a leopard killing a black back or silver back gorilla. Although they are fully capable of doing so. And not just with Leopards, but I've never seen any impressive Gorilla kills. |
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pckts
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Post by pckts on May 6, 2014 3:02:02 GMT 5
You have also never seen a single verified account of a leopard killing a black back or silver back gorilla. Although they are fully capable of doing so. And not just with Leopards, but I've never seen any impressive Gorilla kills. I am not sure what you are saying? Gorillas don't make kills, they aren't predators. But gorillas can be 3x's the size of a leopard with serious jaw strength and fangs as well as massive power. There is reason that no single leopard account exits of them even attempting on a silver back let a lone being successful. A Jaguar would definitely have a better shot, but even still a fight between the two could go either way. |
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pckts
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Post by pckts on May 6, 2014 3:11:34 GMT 5
 This is a image from a possible encounter but I wish I could find the story behind it.  Here a female chimpanzee was able to fight off a male leopard to protect her young son. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 4:03:45 GMT 5
So you're implying a herbivore cannot kill something because it's not a predator? Okay, let's ignore all the deaths associated to animals that are not predators. Moreover, Leopards also have very strong bites, so what is your point? About your second post.
1. Proves nothing against my statement. The Gorilla didn't necessarily kill it, not to mention how you evidently do not know the story behind it (although I'd really like to find it too).
2. And she ended up badly injured. Honey Badgers also can scare animals off such as Lions, but can't kill them.
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pckts
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Post by pckts on May 6, 2014 4:15:27 GMT 5
So you're implying a herbivore cannot kill something because it's not a predator? Okay, let's ignore all the deaths associated to animals that are not predators. Moreover, Leopards also have very strong bites, so what is your point? About your second post. 1. Proves nothing against my statement. The Gorilla didn't necessarily kill it, not to mention how you evidently do not know the story behind it (although I'd really like to find it too). 2. And she ended up badly injured. Honey Badgers also can scare animals off such as Lions, but can't kill them. Im "implying" that herbivores don't make kills unless protecting themselves for the most part. So your claim of "never seeing a impressive gorilla kill" is ridicolous. 2ndly, leopards have absolutely strong bites. But once again, that is relative to their size. And the size of a leopard is 1/3 the size of a gorilla. "She" is the key word there. That was a female Chimp. Not even close to the size of a Silverback Gorilla or a female gorilla for that matter. Yet this female chimp was able to fight off a Male leopard and save her baby plus herself. You are not bringing forth any evidence to back your claim, simply disputed a actual account. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 4:32:47 GMT 5
You actually said something else.
This is worse than saying "never seen an impressive gorilla kill", if they "don't kill because they're not predators", what did you try to prove earlier?
It doesn't say the size of the Leopard either, which is actually important. And she didn't cause any kind of considerable injury according to your source, perhaps you didn't read the Honey Badger example? 18 wounds and the Leopard didn't even aim to predate on her. If you look at what Leopards take down, a Jaguar won't have too much trouble, seeing as it is larger and more impresive than a Leopard.
Ask me for a source for any of my claims then. You aren't proving much either with those.
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