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Post by Vodmeister on May 24, 2014 9:56:14 GMT 5
Christianity, the biggest religion in the world, believe in an OOOO God. For those who do now know, OOOO stands for;
Omnipotent = All Powerful
Omniscient = All Knowing
Omnipresent = Everywhere
Omnibenevolent = All Good
Now there are so many philosophical problems with these, here are a few;
1. If God is omnipotent, he should have the power to make himself be ignorant towards something.
2. If God is ignorant towards something, then he is no longer omniscient.
3. Therefore, God cannot be both omnipotent and omniscient.
1. If God is omnipotent, he should have the ability to erase himself from a certain point in time and space and not be present there.
2. If God does this act, then he is no longer omnipresent.
3. Therefore, God cannot be both omnipotent and omniscient.
1. If God is omniscient and omnipotent, he has the knowledge of how to hate, and is capable of doing so.
2. If God knows how to hate and can do so, he is no longer omnibenevolent.
3. Therefore, God cannot be all omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient.
Who can think of a few more?
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Post by creature386 on May 24, 2014 12:25:11 GMT 5
Just a little note, from what I heard, Islam doesn't believe in an omnibenevolent God. For example their God can lie if it wants.
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Post by Vodmeister on May 24, 2014 13:58:01 GMT 5
Thanks for that. I wasn't sure myself but I simply assumed it.
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blaze
Paleo-artist 
Posts: 766
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Post by blaze on May 28, 2014 3:25:34 GMT 5
Yahweh's powers are like how a kid will describe his favorite superhero, all the "best" powers one can think of, without giving a thought about them making sense at all, which is probably the thought process of how modern Yahweh came to be, pre-Babylonian-exile Yahweh was no where near as overpowered.
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Post by coherentsheaf on May 28, 2014 3:29:16 GMT 5
Yahweh's powers are like how a kid will describe his favorite superhero, all the "best" powers one can think of, without giving a thought about them making sense at all, which is probably the thought process of how modern Yahweh came to be, pre-Babylonian-exile Yahweh was no where near as overpowered. Yeah those iron chariots certainly were a stumbling block for yahweh. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 21:33:38 GMT 5
God can create an object that he is completely incapable of moving, because he's omnipotent. If he cannot move it, he's not omnipotent. If he can move it, he's not omnipotent. God is logically impossible, it's that simple.
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Post by coherentsheaf on Jun 8, 2014 0:19:54 GMT 5
God can create an object that he is completely incapable of moving, because he's omnipotent. If he cannot move it, he's not omnipotent. If he can move it, he's not omnipotent. God is logically impossible, it's that simple. Omnipotence in philosophical terms means "being able to do anything that is metaphysically possible" Your argument fails here. |
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Post by malikc6 on Jun 8, 2014 8:14:30 GMT 5
God is not Omnibenevolent. In fact, he is a hypocrite. If you read the bible, he killed people and made people suffer, well more than Satan. God is no different than a person in all honesty. Just a person with powers.
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Post by creature386 on Jun 8, 2014 12:38:38 GMT 5
True, but the God of new Christianity has differences from the one in the Bible. I go to church (I see it more as some kind of tradition) and I have never heard something like "God will kill you if you don't…" and I am sure I never will. The one in the Bible is more close to what I described for Islam. Islam and Christianity are actually barely different, even though nobody wants to face it. However, Vodmeister is talking about the God that everyone wants to worship and this is (luckily) not the one described in the Bible. Most Christians seemingly don't even know so much about the Bible. Things like the you should kill homosexuals verse are not known to many people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2014 17:09:18 GMT 5
God is not Omnibenevolent. In fact, he is a hypocrite. If you read the bible, he killed people and made people suffer, well more than Satan. God is no different than a person in all honesty. Just a person with powers. According to believers, he is omnibenevolent, despite the fact he's far from it in that he allows evil to exist, and lets his "children" starve. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2014 17:12:27 GMT 5
God can create an object that he is completely incapable of moving, because he's omnipotent. If he cannot move it, he's not omnipotent. If he can move it, he's not omnipotent. God is logically impossible, it's that simple. Omnipotence in philosophical terms means "being able to do anything that is metaphysically possible" Your argument fails here. According to much of christianity, God can do anything he desires, so my argument doesn't fail when it is to be used against most christian claims. |
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Post by creature386 on Jun 9, 2014 17:32:26 GMT 5
God is not Omnibenevolent. In fact, he is a hypocrite. If you read the bible, he killed people and made people suffer, well more than Satan. God is no different than a person in all honesty. Just a person with powers. According to believers, he is omnibenevolent, despite the fact he's far from it in that he allows evil to exist, and lets his "children" starve. Not according to the Bible which keeps talking about a day when he will bring justice, destroy the rich and rescue the poor. The belief in this is still a part of modern Christianity. According to much of christianity, God can do anything he desires, so my argument doesn't fail when it is to be used against most christian claims. What coherentsheaf meant is that the definition of anything was not specified. Most Christian debaters say he can only do things which make sense (or as coherent said, metaphysically possible). This excludes creating for you impossible situations. |
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Post by coherentsheaf on Jun 9, 2014 17:47:22 GMT 5
According to believers, he is omnibenevolent, despite the fact he's far from it in that he allows evil to exist, and lets his "children" starve. Not according to the Bible which keeps talking about a day when he will bring justice, destroy the rich and rescue the poor. The belief in this is still a part of modern Christianity. The bible also has him explicitly saying that he creates evil and he is at best indifferent to our current position. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2014 22:15:52 GMT 5
creature386Note the part saying believers; my argument is mostly used against claims such as God being able to do anything imaginable, having absolutely no limits, in other words claims I'm tired of seeing.
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Post by creature386 on Jun 10, 2014 2:07:29 GMT 5
OK then. I fear that the average believer actually has some difficulties with even understanding the argument in the first place. Most of the preachers know it though, since it is very old.
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