guategojira
Junior Member
Now I become death, the destroyer of worlds!
Posts: 160 
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Post by guategojira on Jun 11, 2014 11:54:27 GMT 5
I don’t want to engage in a "should people have sex before marriage"-debate, frankly because I find the question utterly irrelevant. Abortions don’t just happen as a result of teenage pregnancies, and a married couple will not necessarily be more capable of raising, or willing to raise, a child than a non-married couple. There is nothing sodomized about having sex (given I understand the word correctly), in fact it is perhaps the most natural behaviour humans show at all. Luckily that doesn’t equal having a baby in nowadays. A much bigger problem is imo that there are people who condemn the use of contraceptives, which is likely responsible for a fair number of abortions. You are right in the point that a married couple will not necessarily be more capable of rising, or willing to raise, a child than a non-married couple. However, there is where the correct behavior and the maturity of the mind intervene. Most of the non-married couples end in separations, that is a fact, and the married couples that are not prepared to have kids are those ones that were not prepared for the marriage at all, and that is a common problem, especially with those that only have the civil marriage and those that are joined by the force. Or course that there is nothing wrong in having sex, the sex is good, a wonderful demonstration of love in a couple, and God is not against it, IF you are married and if you are loyal to your wife/husband. Sex out of the marriage, or homosexual relations, or any other deviations is incorrect. Sadly, the modern culture not only accepts these deviations, but it also promotes it. Incredible, these people that say that we must be “tolerant” are the ones that constantly attack the traditional families, showing they true colors, showing that they are NOT tolerant at all. Finally, contraceptives are not the solution; they only contribute to expand the culture of the irresponsibility. The solution is not giving condoms to the kids, is to teach them that sex is not only “fun and more fun”, but it has responsibilities. Contraceptives like a solution, is like to say that to stop war, we must have a gun in each home. These types of artifacts are only reactive solutions, not proactive solutions; they attack only the problem, but not the source of it. |
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Post by creature386 on Jun 11, 2014 15:32:55 GMT 5
However, there are groups of young people in the Catholic Church that search to follow a culture of respect and abstinence. Sure there are some, but, especially in the West, most don't. I mean, the first sexual relation is incredible special when you do it with the correct person, with the true love of your life and with the blessing of God. Humans were created to make love, but modern culture only wants to “mate”. I can see your point: www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2642712/Does-watching-porn-make-LAZY-X-rated-content-shrink-region-brain-linked-motivation-study-claims.htmlI personally don't condemn pornography, but the study above should be read. It can shrink the part of your brain which is responsible for dopamine (in other words, you get less "reward"). It's like with chocolate, if you only eat it once in a while, it tastes better than if you eat three bars every day. People can still do it of course, but they should be aware of it. When I mention the word “sodomization”, I was trying to use a strong word to describe the modern idea that the sex is now just a show and that we must do it as weird as possible. Now, this goes a bit off topic. The "weirdness" has nothing to do with some show. If you mean homosexuality by weirdness, the reason why this gets more and more allowed is simply that we now know that this is something people are born with and curing it is not possible. Therefore, it is now accepted, but I don't see how this is spread by the modern world. There are some religious opinions that still state that humans most have many kids as possible, and that is a problem in many countries, Niger is an example. However, these religious countries are very tied also to a strong idea that women are “inferior” than men, here the woman simply can’t make any opinion. That is why I strongly support the education as a good tool to correct these incorrect old ideas. By the way, Niger is a Muslim country, and this religion is known for its brutality, in ANY form. Maybe, but there are also Christian countries with insane fertility rates, like Uganda. I don't believe Islam is necessarily evil, it just needs a renaissance, like what the Christians had (who then dropped crusades and such). Education can surely help, as Muslims in the West don't significantly differ from the rest of the population (a further reason why I believe a lot of anti-immigrant slogans are just fear mongering): www.huffingtonpost.com/doug-saunders/10-myths-about-muslims-in_b_1864589.htmlFinally, I never say that ALL feminist are vegetarians and that ALL vegetarians are feminist, but you must accept the fact, the most of these radical feminist groups are also vegetarians. Coincidence? Maybe yes, maybe not. I never accused you to claim all feminists are vegetarians and such. It's just, I don't see how these things are connected. |
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Post by theropod on Jun 11, 2014 17:41:25 GMT 5
guategojira: So you want to tell me that sex out of marriage, homosexuality and islam are alltogether evil, and that married couples who don’t want a child should not be married? I’ll stop, here, I have not sucessfully avoided getting into religious debates to start it now. But you have to realise how fundamentalist that sounds. People should not give sex the fault for abortions, it is the mother’s decision and usually the fault of her surroudings. Perhaps it is rather time to make it less difficult for mothers who chose to carry out their baby in difficult situation, instead of being intolerant towards sexuality. Nowadays everybody should have the right to decide for themselves on this matter. Regarding how "modern culture only wants to mate", wanting to mate is fairly natural for a primate, if anything, the predominantly reproductive purpose has decreased steadily over the past millenia. And today’s culture is far more focused on love than any culture before was. A few hundred years ago, marriages driven by love were a rarity.
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Post by creature386 on Jun 11, 2014 18:31:01 GMT 5
To be fair, homosexuality is only what I interpreted in his comment. I am not sure if he meant it, but it would make perfect sense.
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Post by theropod on Jun 11, 2014 18:44:50 GMT 5
But he wrote it…
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Post by creature386 on Jun 11, 2014 18:50:09 GMT 5
Sorry, I only focused on his reply to me and not his one to you. In fact, I didn't even see that there is a second page until I sent my reply.
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guategojira
Junior Member
Now I become death, the destroyer of worlds!
Posts: 160
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Post by guategojira on Jun 12, 2014 10:51:27 GMT 5
guategojira: So you want to tell me that sex out of marriage, homosexuality and islam are alltogether evil, and that married couples who don’t want a child should not be married? I’ll stop, here, I have not sucessfully avoided getting into religious debates to start it now. But you have to realise how fundamentalist that sounds. People should not give sex the fault for abortions, it is the mother’s decision and usually the fault of her surroudings. Perhaps it is rather time to make it less difficult for mothers who chose to carry out their baby in difficult situation, instead of being intolerant towards sexuality. Nowadays everybody should have the right to decide for themselves on this matter. Regarding how "modern culture only wants to mate", wanting to mate is fairly natural for a primate, if anything, the predominantly reproductive purpose has decreased steadily over the past millenia. And today’s culture is far more focused on love than any culture before was. A few hundred years ago, marriages driven by love were a rarity. Let’s go in parts, I don’t know how to create separate quotes here yet. 1. “So you want to tell me that sex out of marriage, homosexuality and islam are alltogether evil, and that married couples who don’t want a child should not be married?” No, I never say that, I CAN’T say that, I am not a judge. Read my words. Sex out of marriage is incorrect. Homosexuality is against nature and the plan of God and Islam is, at 2014, one of the most violent religions, they kill themselves each day. But none of them are “evil” in the sense that you understand it. In fact, sex out of marriage is a sin, that is for sure, but it can be forgotten if you repent yourself. Confession is the sacrament that cleans you from this; after all, the mercy of God is for ALL of us, in any moment. I am not a saint, I am a sinner, just like any of us here, but I fight every day to be a better person. I have learned to respect my present girlfriend and to show her my love tied with our dignity. The point is to don’t do it again. We can wait, the problem is that many times we don’t want to wait. Homosexuality is incorrect, that is for sure too, but Jesus came to save this people too. Jesus loves the sinner, but despises the sin. Homosexuals most NOT be treated badly, it is not them fault. They can and must be helped and the psychologist that says the contrary is a liar. They are invited to live a life of chastity, in order to not comment a greater sin. Finally, about Islam, they are also our brothers, they born from Abraham too. However, those groups of fundamentalist believers are killing people like kill flies, and the same Muslims governments don’t do anything to stop them. However, I don’t lose the hope that someday, the three religions of Abraham will be together, at the light of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2. “People should not give sex the fault for abortions, it is the mother’s decision and usually the fault of her surroudings. Perhaps it is rather time to make it less difficult for mothers who chose to carry out their baby in difficult situation, instead of being intolerant towards sexuality. Nowadays everybody should have the right to decide for themselves on this matter.” You are right in the point that society most help those mothers, especially those that are affected by situations out of they control. However, the sex out of control is a great responsible of this too, and USA is one of the greatest examples of this. We can’t ask all the people to be a saint, that is sure, but what I always say is that if you are going to do something, at least, think in the consequences of it. Yes, everybody should have the right to decide for themselves, but the problem is that modern culture doesn’t show them all the options, one of them, to respect each other. 3. “Regarding how "modern culture only wants to mate", wanting to mate is fairly natural for a primate, if anything, the predominantly reproductive purpose has decreased steadily over the past millenia. And today’s culture is far more focused on love than any culture before was. A few hundred years ago, marriages driven by love were a rarity.” Humans evolved from primates, but we are not primates anymore, we have a soul that separate us from all the living been. We have the unique gift of learn beyond any capacity of any animal, and we can suppress our primal instincts, because we have the capacity of chose. About the love, the evolution of our feelings had changed trough time, that is true, but we can see that Jesus and His Church changed that. Saint Paul writes that the husbands most love they wives and give them all they needs and that wives most respect they husbands. It seems that it was Christianity the one that changed the full sense of marriage and love. Obviously these changes are not a straight line, even now, the love in a family in Latin-American is not the same, in some occasions, that the love in a European family. Some European people say to us that we are “too maternal”, while we told them that they are “too cold” with the family, but this are just variations and are not absolute. I know Italian families that sing and dance together, and some families in Mexico where the father leave its family in order to drink and the homes are a true mess. Hope this helps, take in mind that if you want TRUE tolerance, Christianity is the answer.  |
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guategojira
Junior Member
Now I become death, the destroyer of worlds!
Posts: 160
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Post by guategojira on Jun 12, 2014 10:53:32 GMT 5
However, there are groups of young people in the Catholic Church that search to follow a culture of respect and abstinence. Sure there are some, but, especially in the West, most don't. I mean, the first sexual relation is incredible special when you do it with the correct person, with the true love of your life and with the blessing of God. Humans were created to make love, but modern culture only wants to “mate”. I can see your point: www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2642712/Does-watching-porn-make-LAZY-X-rated-content-shrink-region-brain-linked-motivation-study-claims.htmlI personally don't condemn pornography, but the study above should be read. It can shrink the part of your brain which is responsible for dopamine (in other words, you get less "reward"). It's like with chocolate, if you only eat it once in a while, it tastes better than if you eat three bars every day. People can still do it of course, but they should be aware of it. When I mention the word “sodomization”, I was trying to use a strong word to describe the modern idea that the sex is now just a show and that we must do it as weird as possible. Now, this goes a bit off topic. The "weirdness" has nothing to do with some show. If you mean homosexuality by weirdness, the reason why this gets more and more allowed is simply that we now know that this is something people are born with and curing it is not possible. Therefore, it is now accepted, but I don't see how this is spread by the modern world. There are some religious opinions that still state that humans most have many kids as possible, and that is a problem in many countries, Niger is an example. However, these religious countries are very tied also to a strong idea that women are “inferior” than men, here the woman simply can’t make any opinion. That is why I strongly support the education as a good tool to correct these incorrect old ideas. By the way, Niger is a Muslim country, and this religion is known for its brutality, in ANY form. Maybe, but there are also Christian countries with insane fertility rates, like Uganda. I don't believe Islam is necessarily evil, it just needs a renaissance, like what the Christians had (who then dropped crusades and such). Education can surely help, as Muslims in the West don't significantly differ from the rest of the population (a further reason why I believe a lot of anti-immigrant slogans are just fear mongering): www.huffingtonpost.com/doug-saunders/10-myths-about-muslims-in_b_1864589.htmlFinally, I never say that ALL feminist are vegetarians and that ALL vegetarians are feminist, but you must accept the fact, the most of these radical feminist groups are also vegetarians. Coincidence? Maybe yes, maybe not. I never accused you to claim all feminists are vegetarians and such. It's just, I don't see how these things are connected. I am going to answer to you too, my friend, but tomorrow, now is too late.  Have a nice day.  |
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Post by creature386 on Jun 12, 2014 18:47:36 GMT 5
Homosexuality is incorrect, that is for sure too, but Jesus came to save this people too. Jesus loves the sinner, but despises the sin. Homosexuals most NOT be treated badly, it is not them fault. They can and must be helped and the psychologist that says the contrary is a liar. They are invited to live a life of chastity, in order to not comment a greater sin. Personally, I don't think homosexuality can be cured: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_TuringThis scientist was a homosexual and people tried to heal this, but they failed at it. They tried everything, making him impotent, hormonal treatment (probably also psychological treatment). In fact, it is possible that he died from suicide. If he did, probably because of the horrible treatment. Since medicine has not advanced in this field, I don't believe we can cure it. Sure, there were some cases where homosexuals were married with people of the other gender, but that was forced marriage and they just didn't get happy. I wonder how many of these commit suicide as well. Cases like that of Alan Turning are for me the reason why we should simply accept that some people are born differently. Of course suicide is just a possibility, the other would be a too high cyanide dose he got. I respect though that you don't think the homosexuals themselves are evil. Finally, about Islam, they are also our brothers, they born from Abraham too. However, those groups of fundamentalist believers are killing people like kill flies, and the same Muslims governments don’t do anything to stop them. However, I don’t lose the hope that someday, the three religions of Abraham will be together, at the light of our Lord Jesus Christ. Or maybe they, as I suggested, go to a similar phase like Christians did after the Medieval Ages. After all, they pray to the same God as Christians, I believe we can keep diversity, as long as they don't harm anyone. |
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Post by Supercommunist on Jun 12, 2014 20:08:21 GMT 5
Documentary on animal homosexuality, watch at your own discretion.
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Post by theropod on Jun 12, 2014 21:30:24 GMT 5
ATM most muslim countries may not be the epithome of savety and peace, but if you compare christianity and islam throughout history, you will notice very quickly that the opposite was true for long periods of time. Christianity has also had its radical phases, take the crusades for example, or medieval inquisition; these where definitely among the most violent, superstitious and intolerant phases in history.
And that is not so much linked to the religion itself, but to how insane, radical and violent people of all races and religions have misinterpreted it or used it as an excuse. These people are and were imho nothing other than psychopaths that should be locked away, and in no way should they be understood as a valid representation for their religion.
Homosexuality is just as natural as monogamy. One is a condition animals are born with, one is a habit that developed in certain human societies that also happened to be the ones that later got to conquer and spread a lot around the globe. It is not exactly an effective reproductive strategy, but can you give me a reason why it even exists if god doesn’t like it?
That is what you believe. From a scientific point of view, it is a baseless assumption.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 8:38:23 GMT 5
Humans evolved from primates, but we are not primates anymore, we have a soul that separate us from all the living been. WHAT. Are you ******* kidding me. In a site like this of all places! A creature that evolved from primates will always be a primate. Don't tel me you're one of those who believe that humans are not animals or something. And if humans have souls there is NO REASON to believe that other creatures don't have souls as well. What exactly differentiates humans from other creatures? Same cells, same organs, same bodily systems, similar DNA, and intelligence does NOT count, there are other creatures which come close. It's like saying that cetaceans are not mammals anymore. No amount of differences will get you out of cladistic membership, the only way to be out is to never be in in the first place. As for the subject, abortion is a step towards extinction and should be completely wiped out. |
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Post by Supercommunist on Jun 13, 2014 9:23:27 GMT 5
Maybe if the human population consisted of less than a thousand individuals...
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Post by Supercommunist on Jun 13, 2014 9:28:14 GMT 5
Just realized I never stated my opinion on this topic. Personally I think a woman has the right to have an early stage abortion for any reason she sees fit, though I also think she should probablty consult her partner before doing so.
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Post by Vodmeister on Jun 13, 2014 9:59:55 GMT 5
I'm surprised that a communist would be in favor of gay marriage.
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