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Post by Venomous Dragon on Dec 25, 2014 4:42:40 GMT 5
I cannot continue arguing with someone who defends murder and dances around the topic; I'm done on this post. More like you got shut down and can't think of a counter argument. Ignorant bigot.
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Post by malikc6 on Dec 25, 2014 5:55:26 GMT 5
My plug in doesn't allow me to watch videos anyway ATM, so I will just make a general comment: Honestly, while Islam has a long way to go, not all Muslims are as terrible as many YouTubers think. I remember many discussions with islamophobic YouTubers. It is really hard to take people seriously who call Muslims sand-niggers… Name calling never helps a cause. I agree. This is my beef with Muslims: those who are not in agreement with the terrorists are keeping quiet. Keeping quiet is pretty much the same thing as saying, "I don't care." When I listen to the news, I never hear Muslims protesting against the mayhem or pleading with their fellow Muslims to stop the killing. They are quiet, therefore I have no love for any of them. There are similar issues with other religion/races. A good example is when an unjust act happens to a black person and its by a white person, everyone gets mad and protests and cries racism. Just look at Ferguson. However if a black person kills/robs/rapes/ another black person, you don't hear a peep. This is coming from a black male as well. I've seen it all. Especially how the media shows black women in a stereotypical manner, and taking pride in it, but if someone non black bashes them, they cry racism. I can go on and on, but yeah I believe that staying quiet in a way is condoning it. Martin Luther King himself said "By your silence, you condone it."
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Post by theropod on Dec 25, 2014 12:28:53 GMT 5
Every muslim I know denounces these acts of terrorism. The point is, those are just as far away from where the problem lies as I am, so why should they feel any more obliged to go on demonstrations? Does everyone in some way connected to that, no matter how unintentionally, have the obligation to speak out publically just in order to not be aa bad person?
And doing that where islamic fundamentalists wield all power is at best useless, and at worst suicide. Hasn't the arab spring taught you that? Did christians demonstrate against inquisition? Did christians demonstrate against the 30 year war? These are examples from long ago, but that was when the roles people now assign to islam andd christianity were clearly the other way around, and the reactions weren't much different. You've got no right to judge people based on what you think they should do, when other people in the same situation evidently didn't either.
Why should muslims be any more obliged to speak out than you are? Only because there are some who hold them responsible for what crimes are being committed by exremists of their faith, in the name of their god, who is essentially the same as the god worshipped in christianity?
All of this has nothing to do with any individual religion, It's just people who think they had the right to judge other people without knowing them, usually by means of associating them with others based on a single trait.
Many religions have a history of violence and oppression, that of islam isn't any worse than that of christianity, aand if you'd expect every member of every religion to declare that they condemn crimes committed in their name, you couldn't leave your house because the streeds would be full.
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Post by malikc6 on Dec 25, 2014 14:51:34 GMT 5
I used to go to school with someone who hated Muslims, but he told me a story on a muslim man who killed his cousin. Not to mention with the infamous actions that radical ones have done. Hard to fix someone who went through a loss like that. But its not different for someone who lost their loved one to someone white. Doesn't mean they should hate all white people.
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Post by creature386 on Jan 2, 2015 15:40:09 GMT 5
(Sorry for the late response, was away) To the "denouncing terrorism" debate. I may remind that the greatest victims of these terror organizations are Muslims themselves. What religion do Kurds and Shias have?
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Post by Vodmeister on Jan 10, 2015 10:59:36 GMT 5
I am aware that a few delusional extremists most certainly do not represent the majority of Muslims, but what is happening in Paris right now isn't helping their situation the slightest.
Apart from the victims of the attacks and their families, I feel most sorry for moderate French Muslims, as they will be hurt most by this because of what a minority of nutcases are doing.
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Post by creature386 on Jan 10, 2015 20:31:28 GMT 5
The Arab world and most Muslim communities in Europe clearly condemned that event. An always brought critique was that they don't condemn such events. Now the critique is that they probably only condemn it for not getting criticized… No comment on this. It should be noted though that all these xenophobes keep pointing out how right-wing extremist violence represents a minority, while ridiculing those who think terrorists are a minority.
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Post by theropod on Jan 11, 2015 5:29:31 GMT 5
It’s the same for all criminal "minorities". Police violence, right wing terrorism, christian extremist terrorism, islamic extremist terrorism. If people think they themselves could be associated with it, they call it a minority, but not other comparable cases.
In truth, either all of them are minorities, or none. And either way, that does not mean one can link other people who can be grouped with them in some religious or ethnical way to the crimes. That obviously makes the whole situation worse than it already is.
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Post by coherentsheaf on Jan 12, 2015 4:09:30 GMT 5
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Post by creature386 on Jan 12, 2015 20:24:32 GMT 5
The views in South East Asia were quite shocking to be honest.
I think nobody denies that the religion or at least the respective countries has/have a long way to go.
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Post by Vodmeister on Jan 14, 2015 11:33:33 GMT 5
I know that over 99.9% of all Muslims are not terrorists. There are about 1.8 billion followers of Islam globally, and I doubt that there are as many as 1.8 million Islamic terrorists in this world. Therefore, it is obvious that the terrorists and extremists are a minuscule fraction and minority of Muslims, by no means representative of the overall Islamic population.
However, on the flip side of the argument, there are about 500 million Buddhists in this world, or roughly 28% of the total number of Muslims; yet how many violent crimes in the name of religion can you recall being done by Buddhists extremists? Certainly far less than a quarter of the violence committed by Muslim extremists. That is certainly something that should be looked at, IMO.
Don't get me wrong, personally just about every Muslim I've met in my life were all very likable and wonderful people. No one will deny that by far the majority of Muslims are certainly not extremists. However, Islamic (as well as Christian, to an extend) extremists tend to be more dogmatic and vocal than the extremists of other religions, IMO.
I don't want to sound like an obnoxious religion-hating atheist who thinks he knows it all, because I don't, but is it really that unreasonable to say that the world would probably be a more peaceful place without religion, while still maintaining basic moral values?
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Jan 14, 2015 11:58:50 GMT 5
I know that over 99.9% of all Muslims are not terrorists. There are about 1.8 billion followers of Islam globally, and I doubt that there are as many as 1.8 million Islamic terrorists in this world. Therefore, it is obvious that the terrorists and extremists are a minuscule fraction and minority of Muslims, by no means representative of the overall Islamic population. However, on the flip side of the argument, there are about 500 million Buddhists in this world, or roughly 28% of the total number of Muslims; yet how many violent crimes in the name of religion can you recall being done by Buddhists extremists? Certainly far less than a quarter of the violence committed by Muslim extremists. That is certainly something that should be looked at, IMO. Don't get me wrong, personally just about every Muslim I've met in my life were all very likable and wonderful people. No one will deny that by far the majority of Muslims are certainly not extremists. However, Islamic (as well as Christian, to an extend) extremists tend to be more dogmatic and vocal than the extremists of other religions, IMO. I don't want to sound like an obnoxious religion-hating atheist who thinks he knows it all, because I don't, but is it really that unreasonable to say that the world would probably be a more peaceful place without religion, while still maintaining basic moral values? No one is gonna look good when you compare them to Buddhists
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Post by creature386 on Jan 14, 2015 20:06:04 GMT 5
I don't want to sound like an obnoxious religion-hating atheist who thinks he knows it all, because I don't, but is it really that unreasonable to say that the world would probably be a more peaceful place without religion, while still maintaining basic moral values? Maybe, maybe not. The question is if people find alternative dogmas. Many terrible dictators didn't need religion to commit heavy crimes.
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Post by Vodmeister on Feb 3, 2015 9:42:54 GMT 5
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Post by mechafire on Feb 3, 2015 14:12:26 GMT 5
"If my good friend Dr. [Alberto] Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch," Francis said on his way to the Philippines Thursday, referring to the papal trip organizer. "It's normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others." "There are so many people who speak badly about religions or other religions, who make fun of them, who make a game out of the religions of others," he said. "They are provocateurs. And what happens to them is what would happen to Dr. Gasparri if he says a curse word against my mother. There is a limit." - the pope nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/01/pope-francis-says-charlie-hebdo-cartoons-provoke.htmlHead against keyboard in 3 - 2...
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