pckts
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Posts: 158 
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Post by pckts on Apr 29, 2014 0:45:43 GMT 5
OK, so before discussing this matter any further: I want to see evidence for caracals killing martial eagles and for martial eagles killing caracals. While I’m quite confident both happen, so far not a single account has been posted, just so-called "facts".  A caracal kills animal far larger than a steppe eagle. Obviously a steppe eagle is not out of its prey zone. Hence the smaller bobcat making an attempt on a golden eagle. Why in the world would anybody think that caracals wouldn't make attempts on steppe eagles is beyond me. |
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pckts
Junior Member
Posts: 158
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Post by pckts on Apr 29, 2014 1:07:54 GMT 5
Nonsense I've never seen a account where a martial eagles kills caracal I won't doubt there are a few though. Sorry to correct you 'theropod' but a tom caracal does not need to ambush a martial eagle in order to kill it  A cat at parity is enough to kill a raptor. Oh, so cats can fly? That’s the only way a cat could possibly attack a raptor and not do so by ambush. Get over it, the raptor will always be the agressor in such fights, it can freely decide whether, when, where and what to attack. I must correct myself, I confused that account earlier. Just looked it up and it was a steppe eagle→, not a martial eagle. So there is actualy no report at all of a caracal killing a martial eagle… A cat at parity can undoubtedly kill a raptor. It just happens next to never, because the raptor’s attack strategy and weapons are too formidable. That’s why we see raptors preying on cats at the same size, not the reverse. "The raptor will always be the aggressor in such fights" hahah That is absurd! "A cat at parity can undoubtedly kill a raptor. It just happens next to never, because the raptor’s attack strategy and weapons are too formidable. That’s why we see raptors preying on cats at the same size, not the reverse." This is total crap. Cats at weight parity prey on raptors all the time.  Even at a weight disadvantage it looks like a house cat makes a attempt at a wild eagle. Once again, this is a house cat. Not even comparable to a wild bobcat, caracal etc. Since we are getting completely off topic, this is a Harpy vs Bobcat. The data I posted shows that Harpy eagle in a year span never took a single animal more than 8kg. And definitely never tried its hand at any predatory animals. Even a eagle preying on a wolf or jackal is completely different than attempting a kill on a decent sized wild cat. Dogs, pronghorn, deer etc.. none can fight from their back, they all have one weapon. Whether its their mouth or hooves. But not a cat, they have fangs and a flexible spine that allows them to claw and scratch with their claws as well. A bird simply can't "perch and bite" a cat. The cat will twist and turn and claw and bite unlike a bovine or canid. |
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pckts
Junior Member
Posts: 158
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Post by pckts on Apr 29, 2014 1:11:19 GMT 5
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Weasel
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Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on Apr 29, 2014 2:34:32 GMT 5
Theropod,Runic How do you think the harpy will kill the bobcat in this face to face fight.  |
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Post by theropod on Apr 29, 2014 21:30:19 GMT 5
Puncture its skull or spinal chord with these grizzly-sized claws:  pcktsI see we are making at least some progress. That appears to be the same cat that was subject of the earlier article, and considering it talks of a 9 foot wingspan for the bald eagle (and the earlier one talks of the cat using the eagle as a parachute), I seriously question its reliability. If cats prey on raptors all the time, why exactly don’t we find any records of cat predation on eagles, only the reverse? The cat in that picture doesn’t seem to have a "weight disadvantage", in fact, the bird isn’t even necessarily an eagle. I never doubted caracals can take steppe eagles, or did I not acknowledge the account posted earlier? Now, any REAL records of caracals killing martial eagles? The text above is not relevant, after all martial eagles also take prey bigger than adult caracals, so the caracals should be well within their prey range, or not? And golden eagles take prey up to the size of adult reindeer, so they should potentially be a match for a cougar or leopard based on that reasoning (harpagornis should then be a match for a lion, tiger or grizzly bear…). Do you seriously think that’s the case? You even provide the reasons why that is not relevant yourself, although for some reason you seem to think they are only applying to cats. Tell me how that does not also apply to an impala or an ostrich (especially when that ostrich likely wasn’t fighting back anyway, considering the hypotheses already mentioned in the report). If you seriously want to use the larger-prey-argument, don’t bother, cats lose in that department. I’m not aware of any gigantophagous behaviour in harpy eagles, but mere maximum prey size simply doesn’t determine how powerful a predator is. A harpy eagle’s physique is just as impressive as that of other large, macrophagous eagles, but it is particularly large. |
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Post by Runic on Apr 29, 2014 22:59:11 GMT 5
Theropod,Runic How do you think the harpy will kill the bobcat in this face to face fight. The same way the kill everything else. Stabs to the spine and face. pcktsNo they dont, I think you got that backwards. Why do you think people say protect your pets if you live by eagles? Cause the birds prey on them. Theres a vid of a RED TAIL hawk a 2lb bird, sitting right by a house cat and eating without a single care. The cat was the one acting scared. And this was a hawk |
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Post by coherentsheaf on Apr 29, 2014 23:54:13 GMT 5
Theropod, the bird in the picture is judging from its tail feathers a juveile golden eagle.
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pckts
Junior Member
Posts: 158
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Post by pckts on Apr 30, 2014 1:10:00 GMT 5
Theropod,Runic How do you think the harpy will kill the bobcat in this face to face fight. The same way the kill everything else. Stabs to the spine and face. pcktsNo they dont, I think you got that backwards. Why do you think people say protect your pets if you live by eagles? Cause the birds prey on them. Theres a vid of a RED TAIL hawk a 2lb bird, sitting right by a house cat and eating without a single care. The cat was the one acting scared. And this was a hawk I just showed a account of a cat killing a bald eagle. What are you saying? Taylor said the average cat would likely put up a fight, and a bald eagle is more apt to pick an easier prey target. In fact, their weight is about the same. A female bald eagle can weigh up to 14 pounds. "I'm skeptical, but I can't say it didn't happen," Taylor said. A healthy cat would fight to escape an eagle's grasp, he said. That's why he's skeptical of the report. But "a very young cat, very emaciated cat or a dead cat" could be a possibility, Taylor said. He said a red-tailed hawk or great horned owl also could take a cat, but would likely consume one on the ground. www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/bald_eagle_scoops_up_black_cat.html      Ya, these cats look real scarred! LOL Now here is a Tiny cat that was preyed on by a golden eagle and the "kitty" was still able to do enough damage that they thought the bird had died. www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=586948Here sits the royal eagle fed, and damaged after eating half cat. AP follows The animals Hungry for dinner the royal eagle plunged straight down to the farm in Nes and attack kitty Friday afternoon. In the death match was the eagle so severely damaged that it could not move, writes local newspaper Hallingdølen. - We thought it was dead. But then we went and threw a blanket over the eagle to check, and when it turned out that breathing, says Thomas Mørch to VG Nett. Thus, Mørch and his friend called the sheriff and the local ørneeksperten. In an hour they sat with the eagle wrapped in the blanket and waited for help. - We sat with a baby, says Mørch. And once again, these are family PETS! These are nothing close to a Bobcat. hahaha This is ridicolous. |
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on Apr 30, 2014 8:29:21 GMT 5
I meant how do you guys think this conflict will unfold.
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Post by theropod on Apr 30, 2014 20:18:16 GMT 5
 Not a cat, but what seems to be A sizeable badger. |
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Post by theropod on Apr 30, 2014 20:22:04 GMT 5
I meant how do you guys think this conflict will unfold. Not at all, they don’t coexist. In case you are speaking hypothetically, an eagle would swoop down on a similar-sized bobcat and try to grab its skull or neck, at least that’s how it can be inferred from all the other carnivorans eagles are known to kill. That has the capacity of killing it fairly quickly. If that goes wrong, a struggle will ensue, like this: cdn.ebaumsworld.com/picture/devbuc/eagle.JPGor this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG9ovojbhS0Which will end with either one of the two killing the other, or the eagle flying away (in this hypothetical scenario, just the former). |
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Post by theropod on Apr 30, 2014 20:40:59 GMT 5
coherentsheaf: thanks for the clarification. I thought it looked a little like a buzzard, but I was very unsure about that.
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pckts
Junior Member
Posts: 158
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Post by pckts on May 1, 2014 2:10:19 GMT 5
Not a cat, but what seems to be A sizeable badger. Comparable to a bobcat, in terms of size, not weapons or agility. There is a video of a babger and small bobcat squabbling over a carcass which the bobcat gives up, then a eagle tries to steal the carcass but is also run off by the badger. So this could be a predation by a eagle or a discovery of a carcass. Either way, still not a bobcat. |
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Weasel
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Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on May 1, 2014 2:32:20 GMT 5
I meant how do you guys think this conflict will unfold. Not at all, they don’t coexist. In case you are speaking hypothetically, an eagle would swoop down on a similar-sized bobcat and try to grab its skull or neck, at least that’s how it can be inferred from all the other carnivorans eagles are known to kill. That has the capacity of killing it fairly quickly. If that goes wrong, a struggle will ensue, like this: cdn.ebaumsworld.com/picture/devbuc/eagle.JPGor this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG9ovojbhS0Which will end with either one of the two killing the other, or the eagle flying away (in this hypothetical scenario, just the former)A A bobcat can easily turn the tables it can grapple with its forelimbs. |
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on May 1, 2014 2:38:35 GMT 5
At parity, A cat will kill a eagle in a 'struggle' Eagles don't use their forelimbs to grapple like cats, eagles can't even bite while cats can both bite and use claws. All the eagle has are talons which could be avoided considering the agility of the cat.
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A cat at parity is enough to kill a raptor.
