pckts
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Posts: 158 
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Post by pckts on Apr 22, 2014 0:40:52 GMT 5
Bird of prey killing a roughly equal sized serval.  Runic will probably post similar accounts soon. That being said I'd favor the bobcat. That serval looks much smaller than the eagle for one. And a pic is not enough, that serval could of died from sickness, fight, heatstroke, dehydration etc... The eagle could easily pick up a dead serval and bring it to a tree, that is what they do. So its foolish to say that is a "account". I can show pics of crocs eating adult hippo, but that doesn't mean it killed the hippo, and considering no croc has ever been documented killing a adult hippo, that is pretty clear cut as to why one image can not be used as a account. |
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pckts
Junior Member
Posts: 158
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Post by pckts on Apr 22, 2014 0:44:32 GMT 5
Not too relevant to the discussion but this is an intresting vid. The videos title implies this fight took place over a decent period of time, so it seems likely the more powerful harpy eagle would at the very least give the bobcat a run for its money. I posted that vid. They said the bobcat had already killed 3 30lb turkeys before it attacked the owl next. It also said the bobcat was small. We have to assume that we are using a full grown male bobcat compared to a full grown female Harpy. So it is going to be a 20lb bird vs a 40lb bobcat. That bobcat fighting the owl is barely visable and if it is a owl, the bobcat looks to be the same size, so most likely young, female or both. |
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Post by Supercommunist on Apr 22, 2014 0:45:21 GMT 5
^Birds and winged animals in general look far larger than they actually are. That pic is actually a single still frame of a youtube video, and according to the description the cat was indeed killed by the eagle. www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpT-TAGnTq4 |
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Post by coherentsheaf on Apr 22, 2014 0:49:53 GMT 5
pckts: First, cats in the vids you posted were markedly larger than the birds of prey, probably between 2 and 10 times the mass. attacks of eagles on cats as large or larger than themselves: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKqDysd3dLwwww.youtube.com/watch?v=oy1czXVuEg0Feral cats are also taken by Wedge tails: "The diet during nesting of the wedge-tailed eagle Aquila audax was examined in several regions of Western Australia. On the arid Nullarbor Plain, rabbits were by far the major food item despite the presence of a number of other prey species. In the south-west of the State, which has a Mediterranean climate, birds (especially ducks, parrots and corvids), rabbits and sheep were the most important foods in a very diverse diet. On the arid western coast near Carnarvon, kangaroos and sheep predominated as food but a number of foxes and cats were also taken. In northern Western Australia, macropods appeared to be the main food source. Eagles were capable of capturing a large number of different species of reptiles, birds and mammals, and these varied considerably in size. Snakes, and birds from orders Pelecaniformes, Ardeiformes and Charadriiformes were rarely taken. Lambs made a significant contribution to the diet of eagles in some regions of Western Australia but the number eaten relative to the number of neonatal deaths from all causes was not high. In the regions studied, predation by eagles seemed unlikely to have a significant effect on rabbit numbers." www.publish.csiro.au/?paper=WR9800433Here is one account of a Golden eagle being badly wounded in a fight with a cat, killing it: http://www.vg.no./nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=586948 There was another one were a cat was found dead in the aftermath of a struggle with an eagle, but I cant seem to find it now. Generally eagles seem to have little problem taking on carnivorans their size or even larger. Anyway regarding the topic: Bobcat is probably too large. There is an account floating of an ocelot killing a harpy and this is similar. |
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Post by coherentsheaf on Apr 22, 2014 0:51:33 GMT 5
pcts, a caracal would possibly be a mathc for harpagornis, a steppe eagle is clearly overmatched.
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Post by Supercommunist on Apr 22, 2014 0:54:28 GMT 5
Another similar pic.  Page was in russian, so I don't know what exactly went on, but judging by the cats body it doesn't seem to have died from any prior attacks, disease, starvation, ect. |
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pckts
Junior Member
Posts: 158
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Post by pckts on Apr 22, 2014 4:38:06 GMT 5
Another similar pic. Page was in russian, so I don't know what exactly went on, but judging by the cats body it doesn't seem to have died from any prior attacks, disease, starvation, ect. A feral cat compares to a bob cat? Not so much. Plus that cat is definitely not any larger than the eagle. And yes a caracal can definitely compare to a bob cat, so a caracal preying on a steppe eagle is not the same, but still a eagle with talons none the less. A feral cat is not comparable to a bob cat. Whether comparing limb girth, fang size, skull size and body size as well as claw size. So it is not comparable. Lastly, look at the link you posted. http://www.vg.no./nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=586948 That is a house cat and it did that much damage to a eagle double its size. There is a reason why the golden eagle is shown escaping the bobcats attempt at it. That is because the bobcat is looking at the eagle as prey and that is not for not. That is because it is obviously a prey item to the bobcat. You also said this "Generally eagles seem to have little problem taking on carnivorans their size or even larger." Little problem? There are already accounts of eagles being killed by different cats of similar size as well as other accounts of much larger eagles getting into fights with feral cats and still being injured. So I have a hard time buying your "eagles have little problems with taking other carnivores" argument. Read more: theworldofanimals.proboards.com/post/14741/quote/177?page=3#ixzz2zZDVp2Zc |
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Post by Supercommunist on Apr 22, 2014 6:33:53 GMT 5
Oh come, don't play that game. You asked for evidence of eagles killing similar sized cats and I gave it to you.
^What you posted before in response to coherentsheaf.
I also never claimed that those cats were any where near as impressive as a bobcat, in fact I even already stated that I favored the bobcat.
That cat is definitely bigger than the eagle. A bird would have to appear much larger than most mammalian predator dimensionally to be of equal or greater weight, and that cat looks to be nearly twice as long as the eagle.
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Weasel
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Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on Apr 22, 2014 9:03:00 GMT 5
Oh come, don't play that game. You asked for evidence of eagles killing similar sized cats and I gave it to you. ^What you posted before in response to coherentsheaf. I also never claimed that those cats were any where near as impressive as a bobcat, in fact I even already stated that I favored the bobcat. That cat is definitely bigger than the eagle. A bird would have to appear much larger than most mammalian predator dimensionally to be of equal or greater weight, and that cat looks to be nearly twice as long as the eagle. I know he asked for accounts of eagles killing similar sized cats but at least show accounts where they kill impressive cats. It's not really convincing when you post accounts of eagles killing felines no where near impressive. In your picture of s serval killing a eagle, yes they may have the same mass but you should easily be able to tell that the serval is a kitten and even if it were to be a full grown male (which I doubt) the eagle obviously killed it by ambush |
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Weasel
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Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on Apr 22, 2014 9:18:35 GMT 5
If the eagle is going to is not going to get a ambush the bobcat will win 55/45 the eagle can fight on the ground but I.M.O cats are much better fighters when it comes to fighting on the ground. Afaik most accouts of eagles vs cats of similar mass have the eagle winning. They were probably unimpressive cats or the eagle ambushed them. |
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Weasel
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Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on Apr 22, 2014 9:27:10 GMT 5
pckts: First, cats in the vids you posted were markedly larger than the birds of prey, probably between 2 and 10 times the mass. attacks of eagles on cats as large or larger than themselves: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKqDysd3dLwwww.youtube.com/watch?v=oy1czXVuEg0Feral cats are also taken by Wedge tails: "The diet during nesting of the wedge-tailed eagle Aquila audax was examined in several regions of Western Australia. On the arid Nullarbor Plain, rabbits were by far the major food item despite the presence of a number of other prey species. In the south-west of the State, which has a Mediterranean climate, birds (especially ducks, parrots and corvids), rabbits and sheep were the most important foods in a very diverse diet. On the arid western coast near Carnarvon, kangaroos and sheep predominated as food but a number of foxes and cats were also taken. In northern Western Australia, macropods appeared to be the main food source. Eagles were capable of capturing a large number of different species of reptiles, birds and mammals, and these varied considerably in size. Snakes, and birds from orders Pelecaniformes, Ardeiformes and Charadriiformes were rarely taken. Lambs made a significant contribution to the diet of eagles in some regions of Western Australia but the number eaten relative to the number of neonatal deaths from all causes was not high. In the regions studied, predation by eagles seemed unlikely to have a significant effect on rabbit numbers." www.publish.csiro.au/?paper=WR9800433Here is one account of a Golden eagle being badly wounded in a fight with a cat, killing it: http://www.vg.no./nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=586948 There was another one were a cat was found dead in the aftermath of a struggle with an eagle, but I cant seem to find it now. Generally eagles seem to have little problem taking on carnivorans their size or even larger. Anyway regarding the topic: Bobcat is probably too large. There is an account floating of an ocelot killing a harpy and this is similar. The first vid you posted was a eagle ambushing(?) a wild cat trying to get away, it didn't even fight back. The second vid you posted was a house cat surviving a eagle attack it doesn't prove anything. |
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Post by Supercommunist on Apr 22, 2014 9:43:17 GMT 5
A cat is cat, and as far as I am aware of their aren't many impressive species of cats between the weights of six to fifteen pounds. He wanted accounts of cats being killed by eagles. I provided them. Therefore it should be very convincing. What about this one? You do realize cats also hunt by ambushing their prey right? |
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on Apr 22, 2014 9:57:46 GMT 5
A cat is cat, and as far as I am aware of their aren't many impressive species of cats between the weights of six to fifteen pounds. He wanted accounts of cats being killed by eagles. I provided them. Therefore it should be very convincing. What about this one? You do realize cats also hunt by ambushing their prey right? There are plenty of impressive cats "between the weight of 6 to 16 lb". You posted accounts of eagles ambushing unimpressive cats and tried to pass it on as "proof" that a eagle can kill a similar sized cat. All animals kill their prey by ambush but im not trying to pass a ambush kill on as "proof" |
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Post by Supercommunist on Apr 22, 2014 10:03:10 GMT 5
And whats so unimpressive about the cat in the second picture? Please enlighten me.
Then I suppose we should also dismiss the accounts of cats killing eagles as it highly unlikely a cat would be able to prevent the bird from simply flying away without the element of suprise.
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on Apr 22, 2014 10:06:24 GMT 5
And whats so unimpressive about the cat in the second picture? Please enlighten me. Then I suppose we should also dismiss the accounts of cats killing eagles as it highly unlikely a cat would be able to prevent the bird from simply flying away without the element of suprise. Servals are not impressive compared to bobcats... at all and even then the eagle still ambushed it Also I never posted a cat ambushing a eagle. |
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