Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160 
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Post by Weasel on Apr 22, 2014 10:08:20 GMT 5
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Post by Supercommunist on Apr 22, 2014 10:12:59 GMT 5
I'm not talking about the serval, I'm talking about the cat in the second picture.
And how do you suggest the eagle should go about hunting cats? Walking right up to them and challenging them to a fair fight?
No, but others have, and yet you failed to confront them.
Elaborate.
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on Apr 22, 2014 10:24:50 GMT 5
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Post by Supercommunist on Apr 22, 2014 11:12:29 GMT 5
Yes the one that's not a serval.
Your point? You yourself acknowledge most predators including cats relies on some form of element of suprise when hunting prey, so what do you expect? Predators have no concept of honor, so it is highly unlikely your going to find an account of a cat and eagle killing one another on equal terms.
And how were you able to determine the age and size of this cat? Also can you please explain to me how being young and being unhealthy are one and the same?
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Post by coherentsheaf on Apr 22, 2014 14:02:47 GMT 5
The first vid you posted was a eagle ambushing(?) a wild cat trying to get away, it didn't even fight back. The second vid you posted was a house cat surviving a eagle attack it doesn't prove anything. Ambushing? In both video the cats were aware of the eagles presence. In both videos, the eagle nevertheless opportunistically attacked them. This proves the eagles have no fear of these cats whatsoever. |
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on Apr 23, 2014 5:39:42 GMT 5
The first vid you posted was a eagle ambushing(?) a wild cat trying to get away, it didn't even fight back. The second vid you posted was a house cat surviving a eagle attack it doesn't prove anything. Ambushing? In both video the cats were aware of the eagles presence. In both videos, the eagle nevertheless opportunistically attacked them. This proves the eagles have no fear of these cats whatsoever. Who ever said eagles were afraid of cats? lol they are not afraid of cats but if they were to fight on the ground the cat would obviously win it should not even be a argument |
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on Apr 23, 2014 5:42:25 GMT 5
Yes the one that's not a serval. Your point? You yourself acknowledge most predators including cats relies on some form of element of suprise when hunting prey, so what do you expect? Predators have no concept of honor, so it is highly unlikely your going to find an account of a cat and eagle killing one another on equal terms. And how were you able to determine the age and size of this cat? Also can you please explain to me how being young and being unhealthy are one and the same? At first the cat seemed unhealthy but after a closer look it just looked young, it may be because of the angle of the camera but im pretty sure that it is not a full grown male. Also can we move away from this subject and actually talk about who would win? |
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Post by coherentsheaf on Apr 23, 2014 13:55:02 GMT 5
Ambushing? In both video the cats were aware of the eagles presence. In both videos, the eagle nevertheless opportunistically attacked them. This proves the eagles have no fear of these cats whatsoever. Who ever said eagles were afraid of cats? lol they are not afraid of cats but if they were to fight on the ground the cat would obviously win it should not even be a argument ? that they are not afraid of the cat means that they are confident that they would take a cat in a fight. And given there is zero evidence of similar sized cats preying on eagles to my knowledge your statements are dubious at best. Further eagles attack from the air but unlike falcons kill their prey on the ground. So it is not obvious at all that the eagle would lose on the ground, but all the cats predated o are probably examples of eagles killing cats on the ground. |
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Post by theropod on Apr 23, 2014 15:59:22 GMT 5
WeaselpcktsFirst of all, how is it relevant by any means how the fight would look in some imaginary scenario where the eagle wouldn’t be able to fly? Eagles can fly, just like cats can run! Eagles do their killing on the ground (or, on the animal they are killing), otherwise, you would see them lift koyotes and reindeer into the air. Of course they use their ability to fly and attack from above to their advantage, but I’d love to see your amazing footage of a cat subduing its prey without any swift locomotion involved. Secondly, the cat in that picture looks bigger than the eagle weight-wise. In case any of you noted, that is not a harpy eagle sitting next to it. Its irrelevant whether this cat is comparable to a bobcat. Of course it isn’t, but neither is the eagle comparable to a harpy. Yes, there is a video where a bobcat chases away a golden eagle. That’s not because the eagle was its prey, its because it wanted to scavenge its kill, and the cat was probably a good deal larger than the bird. Cats killing similar-sized eagles is extremely rare (no, cougars and golden eagles are not similar in size!). On the other hand, eagles somewhat routinely prey on similar-sized felines.
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Post by Runic on Apr 23, 2014 17:45:11 GMT 5
I agree with Coherent and theropod. People keep thinking just because an eagle flies it somehow never kills animals on the ground. This isn't true. Once a eagle makes contact with its enemy unless the latter is significantly bigger like a bear or something. The eagle does not let go and the two engage in fighting on the ground. They don't repeatedly divebomb animals. Thats falcons.
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Post by theropod on Apr 23, 2014 18:04:58 GMT 5
 This is what I came up with regarding that video. I arranged the carcass for scale so that the two are approximately the same distance from the camera (note the bobcat is standing behind the carcass, while the eagle is standing in front of it), then I measured their areas. This is imprecise, due to the perspective involved, and I wouldn’t want to make weight estimates from it (far too hazardous), but I think you get the picture; The feline even LOOKS bigger than the eagle, which implies that it is considerably heavier, because a very large portion of the bird’s area is just light feathers, and in addition its skeleton is pneumatised. As a result of that, eagles usually outmatch carnivorans of similar body mass. How is a feline chasing away (and absolutely failing to catch it btw) a smaller, grounded eagle, evidence of predation? vlcsnap-00004.gif (283.39 KB) Reference: www.youtube.com/watch?v=VegwG4QKdNA |
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Post by theropod on Apr 23, 2014 18:17:21 GMT 5
Who ever said eagles were afraid of cats? lol they are not afraid of cats but if they were to fight on the ground the cat would obviously win it should not even be a argument ? that they are not afraid of the cat means that they are confident that they would take a cat in a fight. And given there is zero evidence of similar sized cats preying on eagles to my knowledge your statements are dubious at best. Further eagles attack from the air but unlike falcons kill their prey on the ground. So it is not obvious at all that the eagle would lose on the ground, but all the cats predated o are probably examples of eagles killing cats on the ground. There is one old account→, but it sounds dubious to say the least. Eagles attacking cats and other carnivorans typically do so on the ground, and cats are also not known to use dead birds as parachutes. Also, it involved a bald eagle, not a golden or harpy eagle, which are more formidable. At best, this was a fluke for the cat, at worst, some overenthusiastic reporter got carried away with the reports of overenthusiastic farmers. |
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pckts
Junior Member
Posts: 158
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Post by pckts on Apr 24, 2014 0:11:48 GMT 5
This is what I came up with regarding that video. I arranged the carcass for scale so that the two are approximately the same distance from the camera (note the bobcat is standing behind the carcass, while the eagle is standing in front of it), then I measured their areas. This is imprecise, due to the perspective involved, and I wouldn’t want to make weight estimates from it, but I think you get the picture; The feline even LOOKS bigger than the eagle, which implies that it is considerably heavier, because a very large postion of the bird’s area is just light feathers, and in addition its skeleton is pneumatised. As a result of that, eagles usually outmatch carnivorans of similar body mass. How is a feline chasing away (and absolutely failing to catch it btw) a smaller, grounded eagle, evidence of predation? Reference: www.youtube.com/watch?v=VegwG4QKdNA hahaha "The feline even LOOKS bigger than the eagle, which implies that it is considerably heavier, because a very large postion of the bird’s area is just light feathers," No agenda here at all...... So instead of using your photoshopped images as "fact", lets use real science. Golden Eagles get up to 16lbs or so in the wild. That Bobcat is definitely not full grown. So bobcats adult males get to about 40lbs Lets say that is either a young male or female. Probably in the 14-25lb range. That makes it pretty close to the size of the eagle. Then you say this "How is a feline chasing away (and absolutely failing to catch it btw) a smaller, grounded eagle, evidence of predation?" So what you are saying is, the bobcat stocking the eagle, crouching and remaining hidden, then exploding towards the eagle and leaping around 10' in the air to try and catch it, is what, exactly? This is why its hard to have debates with some of you guys. This is debating your fanatical attachment more than actual open minded debate. At least that is how it reads. |
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pckts
Junior Member
Posts: 158
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Post by pckts on Apr 24, 2014 0:14:35 GMT 5
I agree with Coherent and theropod. People keep thinking just because an eagle flies it somehow never kills animals on the ground. This isn't true. Once a eagle makes contact with its enemy unless the latter is significantly bigger like a bear or something. The eagle does not let go and the two engage in fighting on the ground. They don't repeatedly divebomb animals. Thats falcons. Actually, the 2 eagles who attempted to kill the dingo went like this, One eagle would grab the neck and the other would grab the loins, when the dingo would try snap at the eagle on his neck, the eagle would fly up, then reattach itself after it avoided the attack. |
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pckts
Junior Member
Posts: 158
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Post by pckts on Apr 24, 2014 1:03:34 GMT 5
I agree with Coherent and theropod. People keep thinking just because an eagle flies it somehow never kills animals on the ground. This isn't true. Once a eagle makes contact with its enemy unless the latter is significantly bigger like a bear or something. The eagle does not let go and the two engage in fighting on the ground. They don't repeatedly divebomb animals. Thats falcons. Actually, the 2 eagles who attempted to kill the dingo went like this, One eagle would grab the neck and the other would grab the loins, when the dingo would try snap at the eagle on his neck, the eagle would fly up, then reattach itself after it avoided the attack.  No prey taken over the the weight of 8kg on average. That is in a 328 day period, so that gives you a idea of what Harpy Eagles are most capable of taking. Adult female harpys get over 10kg, so nothing that this harpy killed in 328 days was lager than it self. A report of a Bald eagle falling victim to a fox but the officials first thought it was a bobcat. With the forensic evidence pointing away from their initial suspect - a bobcat - authorities at the National Zoological Park are on the lookout for a cunning red fox, sought in connection with the July 2 murder of Captain, the bald eagle. Scented lures, traps baited with fish and "camera traps" equipped with heat and motion sensors have been deployed to identify or capture the culprit. If caught, zoo officials say, the fox will probably face a ride into exile in the custody of National Park Service rangers. In the days after Captain was found injured and dying in the enclosure he has inhabited for more than 20 years, suspicion fell on a large feline, perhaps a bobcat. "We found really large, somewhat rounded footprints that looked suggestive of a cat," said Bob King, assistant curator at the National Zoo. The absence of claw prints suggested a feline, which can retract their claws. But the theory soon began to fall apart. There had never been a report of a bobcat in Rock Creek Park, which surrounds the zoo. And the eagle appeared to have been attacked from behind, losing tail feathers and sustaining bites on the rear and abdomen. "That's suggestive of a canine. A bobcat would have gone for the head," King said. Investigators also noted that the eagle's food - a fish - had been bitten clean in half. "Bobcats, or even an eagle, pick at their prey," he said. The bobcat theory unraveled further when Robert Colona, a biologist with the Maryland Department of Natural Resources, identified the paw prints - preserved in casts - as those of a fox, albeit an urban fox with well-worn nails. The mystery of how a predator could enter the eagle's enclosure was solved when investigators found a section of the cage's 3-by-6-inch steel wire mesh that had been bent to form a 4-by-5-inch opening, easily enough for a fox to slip through. The bobcat theory finally collapsed when hairs found outside the cage were identified microscopically by Suzanne C. Peurach, a museum specialist at Patuxent Wildlife Research Center, as those of Vulpes vulpes - a red fox. Although a DNA analysis of the hair and a final necropsy report are pending, the zoo's working theory now goes something like this: The fox slipped into the cage in pursuit of Captain's fish dinner and jumped the eagle from behind; a struggle ensued, in which the eagle was fatally injured; he died on Independence Day. Red foxes have taken out smaller birds before in the zoo's open-air exhibits, King said. Last fall, some avian enclosures were fitted with electrified wires to keep out such predators. There had been no similar upgrade for Captain's cage because no one had thought that the cage, or a grown eagle, were vulnerable to a fox. |
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