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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Nov 18, 2019 17:48:16 GMT 5
 The tiger appeared to be inflicting more damage. Its mouth was full of black bear's hairThe bear, on the other hand, was groping slowly but surely for the tiger's neck. The tiger, agile and strong as it was, was less enduring. It was used to killing instantaneously. It was not adapted for a drawn-out struggle, and soon the tables turned. It was getting the worst of the fight. The bear's powerful jaws closed on its throat. The cat roared hoarsely and beat about in death pains. books.google.com.au/books?id=fl0mAQAAMAAJ&q=The+tiger+appeared+to+be+inflicting+more+damage.+Its+mouth+was+full+of+black+bears+hairThe+bear,+on+the+other+hand,+was+groping+slowly+but+surely+for+the+tiger%27s+neck.+The+tiger,+agile+and+strong+as+it+was,+was+less+enduring.+It+was+used+to+killing+instantaneously.+It+was+not+adapted+for+a+drawn-out+struggle,+and+soon+the+tables+turned.+It+was+getting+the+worst+of+the+fight.+The+bear%27s+powerful+jaws+closed+on+its+throat.+The+cat+roared+hoarsely+and+beat+about+in+death+pains.&dq=The+tiger+appeared+to+be+inflicting+more+damage.+Its+mouth+was+full+of+black+bears+hairThe+bear,+on+the+other+hand,+was+groping+slowly+but+surely+for+the+tiger%27s+neck.+The+tiger,+agile+and+strong+as+it+was,+was+less+enduring.+It+was+used+to+killing+instantaneously.+It+was+not+adapted+for+a+drawn-out+struggle,+and+soon+the+tables+turned.+It+was+getting+the+worst+of+the+fight.+The+bear%27s+powerful+jaws+closed+on+its+throat.+The+cat+roared+hoarsely+and+beat+about+in+death+pains.&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwirguL94_PlAhXg6nMBHa8xDyIQ6AEIKDAA  ![]() |
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Post by creature386 on Nov 18, 2019 19:27:36 GMT 5
Did you only find the links or also the quotes on Carnivora? If its the latter, you might want to remove that, as it violates our agreement with Carnivora.
EDIT: If you really have Taipan's permission though, this is probably a non-issue.
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Nov 18, 2019 19:31:47 GMT 5
Did you only find the links or also the quotes on Carnivora? If its the latter, you might want to remove that, as it violates our agreement with Carnivora. I deleted the three accounts. Apologies. Edit: I have permission as long as I give credit to where the source is from. |
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mountainlord
Member
Tiger - The Legendary Killer of Brown bears
Posts: 309
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Post by mountainlord on Nov 18, 2019 20:05:28 GMT 5
The tiger appeared to be inflicting more damage. Its mouth was full of black bear's hairThe bear, on the other hand, was groping slowly but surely for the tiger's neck. The tiger, agile and strong as it was, was less enduring. It was used to killing instantaneously. It was not adapted for a drawn-out struggle, and soon the tables turned. It was getting the worst of the fight. The bear's powerful jaws closed on its throat. The cat roared hoarsely and beat about in death pains. books.google.com.au/books?id=fl0mAQAAMAAJ&q=The+tiger+appeared+to+be+inflicting+more+damage.+Its+mouth+was+full+of+black+bears+hairThe+bear,+on+the+other+hand,+was+groping+slowly+but+surely+for+the+tiger%27s+neck.+The+tiger,+agile+and+strong+as+it+was,+was+less+enduring.+It+was+used+to+killing+instantaneously.+It+was+not+adapted+for+a+drawn-out+struggle,+and+soon+the+tables+turned.+It+was+getting+the+worst+of+the+fight.+The+bear%27s+powerful+jaws+closed+on+its+throat.+The+cat+roared+hoarsely+and+beat+about+in+death+pains.&dq=The+tiger+appeared+to+be+inflicting+more+damage.+Its+mouth+was+full+of+black+bears+hairThe+bear,+on+the+other+hand,+was+groping+slowly+but+surely+for+the+tiger%27s+neck.+The+tiger,+agile+and+strong+as+it+was,+was+less+enduring.+It+was+used+to+killing+instantaneously.+It+was+not+adapted+for+a+drawn-out+struggle,+and+soon+the+tables+turned.+It+was+getting+the+worst+of+the+fight.+The+bear%27s+powerful+jaws+closed+on+its+throat.+The+cat+roared+hoarsely+and+beat+about+in+death+pains.&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwirguL94_PlAhXg6nMBHa8xDyIQ6AEIKDAA ![]()
Sysoev never reported one fair fight. So this account actually doesn't do the large male Brown bear any favours, in fact it makes it look bad. It badly struggled with a young tiger.
Russian biologist; Rukovsky reported many fight accounts between tigers and brown bears, in which the tiger dominated, winning 11 - 2 in fights.
"To clarify the relationship between these two predators, I interviewed 42 local hunters, old-timers Primorsky Krai. Of these, 7 people responded that the tiger specifically hunts for a bear; one man said that the bear walks in the footsteps of a tiger, collecting the remnants of its food; ( Scavenging left-overs ) 14 described the tiger-bear fights without a tragic outcome; 2 remembered when a bear strangled a tiger; 11 claimed that the tiger killed the bear, and, finally, 2 hunters assured that the bear leaves the grounds where the tiger appeared."
"Fights between large tigers and brown bears occur only in the hungry years, unfavorable for the bear in relation to food, when the connecting rods collide with tigers near the preyed animals. And only in rare cases can a tiger become a victim."
www.piterhunt.ru/Library/rukovskiy/po_sledam_lesnih_zverey/9.htm
Note, Rukovsky states that in fights between large tigers and large brown bears, only in RARE cases does the tiger lose. And this is 100% consistent with all the other fight statistics documented by Russian authorities, which prove that tigers are the usual winners in a fight against a Brown bear.
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Nov 19, 2019 8:45:48 GMT 5
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Nov 19, 2019 8:49:30 GMT 5
 www.reddit.com/r/ANormalDayInRussia/comments/4d2xt4/bear_vs_tiger/ But to my amazement, the little bear rose on his hind legs, growled ferociously, and slapped out with his small paws. The tiger pulled up in surprise. Four times the tiger returned to the attack; four times the little bear engaged in his desperate . bluff, and he won. The tiger, after its last attempt, turned tail, climbed high into a plane tree, and refused to descend. The little bear was unharmed. books.google.com.au/books?id=hc_RAAAAMAAJ&q=But+to+my+amazement,+the+little+bear+rose+on+his+hind+legs,+growled+ferociously,+and+slapped+out+with+his+small+paws.+The+tiger+pulled+up+in+surprise.+Four+times+the+tiger+returned+to+the+attack;+four+times+the+little+bear+engaged+in+his+desperate+.+bluff,+and+he+won.+The+tiger,+after+its+last+attempt,+turned+tail,+climbed+high+into+a+plane+tree,+and+refused+to+descend.+The+little+bear+was+unharmed.&dq=But+to+my+amazement,+the+little+bear+rose+on+his+hind+legs,+growled+ferociously,+and+slapped+out+with+his+small+paws.+The+tiger+pulled+up+in+surprise.+Four+times+the+tiger+returned+to+the+attack;+four+times+the+little+bear+engaged+in+his+desperate+.+bluff,+and+he+won.+The+tiger,+after+its+last+attempt,+turned+tail,+climbed+high+into+a+plane+tree,+and+refused+to+descend.+The+little+bear+was+unharmed.&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj8pOfRsvXlAhXWR30KHRz7DUAQ6AEIKzAA |
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Nov 19, 2019 9:14:31 GMT 5
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Nov 19, 2019 9:15:26 GMT 5
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Nov 19, 2019 10:40:46 GMT 5
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mountainlord
Member
Tiger - The Legendary Killer of Brown bears
Posts: 309
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Post by mountainlord on Nov 19, 2019 19:44:02 GMT 5
GreenArrow
Are you debating or just spamming old captive, unreliable accounts? Yeah, you posted some one-off exceptional cases and vague references of Himalayan bears showing no fear of tigers. And?....Whats that supposed to prove?
Then you posted accounts involving tigers cubs and juveniles. If you wanna see TONS of accounts of tigers killing bears left, right and centre, then you can take a good read through this entire thread here:
www.tapatalk.com/groups/animalfightclub/tigers-dominate-kill-and-eat-bears-t81.html
You see, this is the problem. All the bear side has is some exceptional cases and old, unreliable and illogical sounding captive accounts, thats all. Whereas the tiger side has a whole bunch of RELIABLE accounts from the wild, documented by experts, of tigers killing both Brown bears and Black bears in fights.
Its what happens in GENERAL thats important, not on rare cases like you posted. For example....
This is from Russian biologists, Heptner and Sludskii:
Bears are GENERALLY afraid of tigers, and run away from their tracks!
Clear proof confirming that Amur tigers DOMINATE bears in the Russian far east
Hunter J Alain Smith travels to the Russian far east to hunt some bears, and after a tiger sighting in the area, the next day he is told by the Russian forest rangers, that they have to leave the area, because with a tiger lurking in the vicinity, the bears won't come out..because all of the bears are scared of the tigers!
Go to the 13:18 mark:
Note - Alain Smith was told by actual Russian forest rangers - who have lived in the ussuri taiga area their whole life and work in the forest - and these people told him that the bears are AFRAID of the tigers! This clearly proves that the Amur tiger reigns supreme over bears and completely rules and owns the Russian taiga, period.
Recently, a male tiger was seen chasing three sloth bears, and all the bears ran for their lives:
By Mihir Mahajan
A sleuth of bears runs across a dusty jungle path on a hot summer’s morning as a big male tiger chases them while they feed on a termite mound.
(Tried getting the tiger in the frame too but it was too cluttered thanks to the dense bamboo).
Bandhavgarh | Summer 2019.
In general, bears are afraid of tigers, because the tiger is the predator of bears. Now, can you stop spamming the same old laughable captive accounts that Kodiak and Brobear spammed over and over. Post accounts that are actually reliable and confirmed.
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mountainlord
Member
Tiger - The Legendary Killer of Brown bears
Posts: 309
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Post by mountainlord on Nov 19, 2019 19:47:50 GMT 5
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mountainlord
Member
Tiger - The Legendary Killer of Brown bears
Posts: 309
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Post by mountainlord on Nov 19, 2019 19:56:03 GMT 5
And here we have an actually Russian biologist/authority on video stating that AS A RULE, the tiger will defeat the Brown bear in a fight. Which means in most cases the tiger will win. Which is also confirmed by the fight statistics reported by the experts.
Biologist, Timofei Bazhenov: "I am often asked: If the tiger meets the brown bear in the taiga, who will win then? AS A RULE, THE TIGER WINS.
He said that the only chance a Brown bear may have is if it is a large Brown bear, thats all. But still, in general, the tiger wins. That says it all.
Also note, that the man clearly outright stated that when the tiger and Brown bear MEET, not "ambush" but MEET each other in the taiga, which very clearly means a face-to-face encounter. Kodiak like the lying deceitful troll that he is, tried to twist the mans words, but ended up getting exposed for it.
So we have an actual Russian expert/biologist on video stating that the tiger - as a rule - wins a fight against a Brown bear. What more blatant proof do you need now?
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Nov 20, 2019 5:10:08 GMT 5
  books.google.co.uk/books?op=lookup&id=WGvVohmSYXcC&continue=https://books.google.co.uk/books%3Fid%3DWGvVohmSYXcC%26dq%3Dlev%2Bkaplanov%2Bvery%2Blarge%2Bbrown%2Bbear%26sitesec%3Dreviews%26hl%3Den&hl=en Male Ussuri brown bears weigh 580 pounds (264 kg) on average so any male brown bear at 600 to 700 pounds and above is considered large. A female Ussuri brown bear is 416 pounds (189 kg ) on average and is considered large at 500 pounds. A tiger can kill a sun bear, sloth bear, and even large male black bears and large female brown bear and any brown bear at weight parity but not a large male Ussuri brown bear. Linda Kerley's email:  I have been studying tiger food habits for the past 14 years and have found several bears killed and eaten by tigers. Some tigers specialize in eating bears and they will kill both Asiatic black bears and LARGER Brown bears. We radio-collared one male tiger who ate bears all summer and lost weight in the winter presumably because he couldn't find his favourite food. Recently, people have been killing bears because of an increased demand for bear feet and gall bladders, and I worry that this will effect tigers as well because bears are an important food source for tigers in summer.
I've seen tigers prey on all shapes and sized of black bears and up to the LARGEST and HEALTHIEST female brown bears.
The average female Ussuri brown bear at 416 pounds outweighs the 298 pounds. According to Linda Kerley, the largest and healthiest female brown bears is what the tigers go for.  Also both Ussuri black bears and brown bears only make up 2.2% of the Siberian tiger's diet which is hardly regular and close to zero. Bears are also slow breeding and slower than elk. roe deer, and musk deer yet are taken less often than bears. This is because a bear at weight parity is still dangerous for any tiger. Male brown bears prefer to stalk tigress with cubs rather than male tigers because a tigress with cubs needs to hunt more often as she has cubs to raise. Male leopards hunt every three days whereas females with cubs hunt every 1.5 days. " G.F. Gorokhov (1973) writes about another battle in which there was no winner. The tiger, having noticed a bear walking towards him, lay behind an eversion. Letting the bear closer, he overtook him from the second jump. The bear took the fight. The animals fought for a long time, and both parted with blood. The tiger was coughing up blood after a collision. The brown bear is able not only to provide worthy resistance to the tiger that attacked him, but also to emerge victorious from the battle." From Carnivora. |
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Nov 20, 2019 5:28:13 GMT 5
 Animals that are the possible prey of tigers react in different ways to footprints of these predators and to the scent of the tigers. Manchurian deer, for example, do not manifest any indications of unease when they run across fresh tiger tracks. Wild boar usually behave in a similar fashion. We observed on one occasion, however, that wild boar, after approaching their den for the night and having discovered that a tiger had lain there not long before their arrival, abandoned this place. In one case, roe deer immediately began leaping away upon crossing fresh tiger tracks. Various reactions were observed in such situations in the case of bears. One brown bear, which was staying in an area permanently inhabited by tigers, clearly felt himself to be the complete master in that place. Another brown bear, once abruptly turned away from his former path upon his encounter with tiger tracks. But a large, apparently male, Himalayan (or Asiatic black) bear (which we observed visually), like the brown bear that has already been mentioned, clearly did not fear the presence of tigers. He walked along the tiger's tracks and rested in the same wild boar den as did the tiger. Thus, the tigers' fresh footprints do not produce a strong sense of unease in the tiger's potential prey in the majority of cases, a fact which is very important for ensuring regularly successful hunts by these predators in areas where tigers live on a permanent basis.
sixote-alin.ru/books/ecolog/ch12_en.htmlThe 2nd source is originally from Carnivora. From "Interspecific Relations between the Amur Tiger (Panthera tigris altaica) and Brown( Ursus arctos) and Asiatic Black (Ursus thibetanus) Bears" "In terms of the way in which bears took hold of tiger prey, significant differences were revealed. Asiatic black bears mostly used the prey after the tigers have left, where brown bears took the prey away from tigers
or shared it with them (Table 2). This is, apparently,
due to the fact that the Asiatic black bear avoids the
tiger to a greater degree than the brown bear." Credited to Smedz. N.N. Rukovsky himself in the footsteps once determined that a brown bear killed a tiger. The bear was very large (it was visible in the footsteps), and the tiger is young - about 4 years old (it was visible on the skull). The very battlefield (broken fir trunks with arm thick, scattered wisps of wool, blood) testified to a long and fierce struggle.
This source is originally from Carnivora. A four year old tiger is a young adult.  I still believe that the bengal tiger will be able to kill a sloth bear in a face to face fight to death. Malayan tiger's which share the habitat with sun bears are smaller than Bengal tigers.  |
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Nov 20, 2019 6:08:56 GMT 5
Tigers eat sloth bears, don't they? In India’s jungles tigers sometimes kill sloth bears. And eat them for breakfast – and lunch and dinner if there’s anything left over! Although the shaggy sloth bear, one of four species of bears found in India, has a fearsome reputation for unprovoked aggression, Baloo is obviously no match for Shere Khan. Bear hair in tiger scat is not an unusual sight in forests where the two species coexist. My friend, Dr. K. Yoganand, a wildlife biologist who studied sloth bears in Panna Tiger Reserve in Madhya Pradesh, not only witnessed many aggressive encounters between bears and tigers, he even photographed a tiger feeding on a fresh sloth bear kill. Obviously there is little love lost between the two species, which makes the incident I’m about to narrate rather unique.  In early 2008, a small group of us, including renowned tiger expert, Dr. Ullas Karanth, of the Wildlife Conservation Society, witnessed a remarkable interaction between the two protagonists, the likes of which I’d never even dreamed of seeing in over two decades as a professional wildlife cameraman and filmmaker. Here’s what happened. February 2nd 2008: We are seated in a watchtower overlooking a distant pool in the Nagarahole Tiger Reserve in Karnataka towards the end of a warm day. Several broad ‘view lines’ cleared by the park management radiate from this tower, allowing one to see animals that pass by on all sides, even far away. A small herd of chital or spotted deer is grazing in one of these view lines. Around 4.30 p.m. the deer suddenly perk up and, gazing into an adjacent patch of forest, signal with their high-pitched alarm calls that they have spotted a predator, probably, a tiger or a leopard. Within minutes they melt away into the forest on the other side, but we remain on high alert. After what seems like an eternity, but is in fact about 20 minutes, we hear the loud woofing sounds of a sloth bear from the patch of forest that the chital had been suspicious of. Tense Anticipation in the tower. All binoculars now riveted in the direction of the hidden mystery. Five minutes later a large male tiger steps out of the patch of forest and into the view line, about 200 meters from where we are seated. As we watch in disbelief, it is followed by an obviously agitated sloth bear that begins charging towards the predator. The big cat turns around, and we brace ourselves for a horrendous battle resulting in one very dead bear. Instead, confounding our belief, and standing conventional wisdom on its head, the tiger calmly flops down and contemplates the bear with complete equanimity!       The nonplussed bear then walks towards the tiger and, when it has approached it to within spitting distance, rises up on its hind legs. The tiger simply looks at the bear and yawns. The bear then retreats into the forested patch, and the tiger flops on its side and goes to sleep!  Picture Drama over, we turn to Ullas Karanth and ask him “what the hell was all that about?!”. Here is his interpretation of what took place: “it is likely that the bear had cubs with her in the patch of forest when the tiger crossed paths with them. The woofing alarm call we heard earlier would have been the female warning the tiger off. She probably followed him out into the clearing to make sure he was heading away from her cubs. As for the tiger, his belly was full and he was not interested in food. When not hunting, tigers are often totally disinterested in the presence of prey. I suppose if this cat could feel ‘amusement’, as we did, he probably just found the bear’s antics entertaining.” As Murphy’s Law would have it, faced with this once-in-a-lifetime spectacle, none of us had an SLR camera with a big telephoto lens. I clicked away with a less than adequate camera for the occasion, and the pictures had to be blown up by 300 per cent to bring the action closer. But, thankfully at least I have proof! Now no one can say “oh yeah? So what exactly were you drinking that day?”! www.shekardattatri.com/wow-moments.html
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