Colossal Squid vs Saltwater Crocodile

[Supercommunist]

It says "maul and grapple". Period. It has hooks on it's tentacles to "maul and grapple" regardless which was my point. Honestly don't quote me if you don't understand my post. Just because something generally attacks small animals doesn't mean it's defenseless.

It doesn't really matter that the article didn't specifically state the hooks and tentacles where designed to grapple small prey, judging by the fact these animals are able to live off of five kilograms of fish for two hundred days suggests that they are specalized in hunting small prey items, and as such would likely be overwhelmed when confonting a predatory animal anywhere near its size.

[creature386]

Sept 11, 2013 1:24:42 GMT 5 Runic said:

Sept 10, 2013 22:48:51 GMT 5 Vodmeister said:

How much damage would the squid's beak do to the crocodiles' armor? The answer is not much.

How much damage would the crocodile's jaws do to the squid's soft body? I'll let you answer that one.

I also don't see a 300 kg squid being able to drown a 1000 kg crocodile very easily.

Crocodile armor is not steel. Leopard bite through it. A much stronger squids bite woulddo better. And why is everyone using freakish crocs?

I thought your point was the fact that the squid could rwon the crocodile, so why is the bite damage relevant here?

[Runic]

Sept 11, 2013 19:38:15 GMT 5 creature386 said:

Sept 11, 2013 1:24:42 GMT 5 Runic said:

Crocodile armor is not steel. Leopard bite through it. A much stronger squids bite woulddo better. And why is everyone using freakish crocs?

I thought your point was the fact that the squid could rwon the crocodile, so why is the bite damage relevant here?

Same goes for you, if you don't get my post please don't quote me (no offense intended of course). Vodmeister implied a squids beak can't pierce crocodile armor. I refuted that by saying leopard have done it before. Therefore why can't a larger squid? The point was to refute the crocodiles armor could render the squids attack defenseless. No where did it change my stance the squid could still drown it.

[Runic]

Sept 11, 2013 3:51:10 GMT 5 Supercommunist said:

It says "maul and grapple". Period. It has hooks on it's tentacles to "maul and grapple" regardless which was my point. Honestly don't quote me if you don't understand my post. Just because something generally attacks small animals doesn't mean it's defenseless.

It doesn't really matter that the article didn't specifically state the hooks and tentacles where designed to grapple small prey, judging by the fact these animals are able to live off of five kilograms of fish for two hundred days suggests that they are specalized in hunting small prey items, and as such would likely be overwhelmed when confonting a predatory animal anywhere near its size.

Tetrapod predators mainly hunt prey smaller than themselves. Big cats and canines are terapods. Therefore by your logic their weaponry is mainly adapted for killing small things? Once again where how do you think sperm whale acquired their numerous scars when preying on squids?
1.bp.blogspot.com/-rlGSQI2Oop8/ToEfZTYHtTI/AAAAAAAAAsk/jYGcd7J4_AY/s280/slide_squid03.jpg

[Supercommunist]

Tetrapod predators mainly hunt prey smaller than themselves. Big cats and canines are terapods. Therefore by your logic their weaponry is mainly adapted for killing small things?

...What? Tetrapods cover a huge arrary of animals and comparing them all to big cats and canines make little sense; and unlike some canines and big cats that are adapted to hunting large prey collosal squid aren't.

Recent studies have previously identified chemical variants known as isotopes in colossal squid specimens which have revealed large fish, notably Antarctic toothfish as its main prey.

Allow me to remind you that antartctic toothfish are much smaller than these squids.

Scientists with a large Antarctic toothfish – weighing 57 kilorgrams and measuring over 1.5 metres long - caught during the survey.

www.sciencelearn.org.nz/Science-Stories/Research-Voyage-to-Antarctica/Sci-Media/Images/Large-Antarctic-toothfish

Conclusion: evidence strongly suggests that collosal squid are sluggish, adapted to preying on much smaller animals, and thus are likely poor fighters.

Once again where how do you think sperm whale acquired their numerous scars when preying on squids?

None of those scars seemed life threatning or even particularly damaging so I don't see how this is relevant to this match.

[Deleted]

While the squid is pretty formidable, I don't think it would be able to land a good bite on an armored powerhouse like a Saltwater Crocodile without getting bit first. The Saltwater Crocodile wins. I could be very well wrong though.

[Runic]

Sept 12, 2013 1:02:58 GMT 5 Supercommunist said:

Tetrapod predators mainly hunt prey smaller than themselves. Big cats and canines are terapods. Therefore by your logic their weaponry is mainly adapted for killing small things?

...What? Tetrapods cover a huge arrary of animals and comparing them all to big cats and canines make little sense; and unlike some canines and big cats that are adapted to hunting large prey collosal squid aren't.

Recent studies have previously identified chemical variants known as isotopes in colossal squid specimens which have revealed large fish, notably Antarctic toothfish as its main prey.

Allow me to remind you that antartctic toothfish are much smaller than these squids.

Scientists with a large Antarctic toothfish – weighing 57 kilorgrams and measuring over 1.5 metres long - caught during the survey.

www.sciencelearn.org.nz/Science-Stories/Research-Voyage-to-Antarctica/Sci-Media/Images/Large-Antarctic-toothfish

Conclusion: evidence strongly suggests that collosal squid are sluggish, adapted to preying on much smaller animals, and thus are likely poor fighters.

Once again where how do you think sperm whale acquired their numerous scars when preying on squids?

None of those scars seemed life threatning or even particularly damaging so I don't see how this is relevant to this match.

The point still stands. The general census is tetrapod predators hunt prey smaller than them on a daily basis. Therefore by your flawed logic, just because animal like wolves mainly hunt animal they outweigh means they are incapable of killing animal much bigger than them correct because after all they are tetrapods? Regardless your squids can only hunt toothfish logic is also void for two reason.

1. Squids have hooked tentacles whos purpose is to grapple and maul prey regardless as seen here
1.bp.blogspot.com/-rlGSQI2Oop8/ToEfZTYHtTI/AAAAAAAAAsk/jYGcd7J4_AY/s280/slide_squid03.jpg
compared to what it normally hunts.

2. Squid only hunt toothfish because it's all they need to survive and because they have slow metabolism. Nothing in the article you posted infers they were incapable of killing animal their size. It just inferred they didn't need much food. You are confusing a squids diet requirements with it's capacity to injure or kill with its tentacles or beak.

On to the sperm whale issue. A sperm whale is a predator that can be over 10 times the size of even the largest squids so of course the squid can't mortally injure one. The point proves your "squids are unimpressive" is even more destroyed in this case because the hooks on squids tentacles can cause some damage to a predator over 10x its size. Even to the point it leaves heavily visible scarring on the whale. Could a crocodile do the this to a bull sperm whale?
1.bp.blogspot.com/-rlGSQI2Oop8/ToEfZTYHtTI/AAAAAAAAAsk/jYGcd7J4_AY/s280/slide_squid03.jpg
No.

Squids are not unimpressive in the least contrary to popular belief and your claim.

[creature386]

Sept 11, 2013 23:57:03 GMT 5 Runic said:

Sept 11, 2013 19:38:15 GMT 5 creature386 said:

I thought your point was the fact that the squid could rwon the crocodile, so why is the bite damage relevant here?

Same goes for you, if you don't get my post please don't quote me (no offense intended of course). Vodmeister implied a squids beak can't pierce crocodile armor. I refuted that by saying leopard have done it before. Therefore why can't a larger squid? The point was to refute the crocodiles armor could render the squids attack defenseless. No where did it change my stance the squid could still drown it.

I see, I would have been better if I asked Vodmeister than.

Anyway, I will maybe contribute a bit more tomorrow here, after I learned something about both animals.

[Supercommunist]

The point still stands. The general census is tetrapod predators hunt prey smaller than them on a daily basis. Therefore by your flawed logic, just because animal like wolves mainly hunt animal they outweigh means they are incapable of killing animal much bigger than them correct because after all they are tetrapods?

No, just because an animal is a tetrapod does NOT mean they mainly hunt prey smaller than themselves, big game hunters like smilidon are a prime example of this. If anything your logic is flawed not mine.

1. Squids have hooked tentacles whos purpose is to grapple and maul prey regardless as seen here

Herons have beaks adapted for stabbing and impaling prey, but we should assume that this only applies to smaller animals as they are adapted to eating smaller animals.

2. Squid only hunt toothfish because it's all they need to survive and because they have slow metabolism.

And when an animal's prey options are limited they generally become specalized for hunting those animals.

Nothing in the article you posted infers they were incapable of killing animal their size.

Well, do you have any evidence that giant squid are capable of killing large animals?

It just inferred they didn't need much food.

Which should tell you how slow and ungaily they probably are. These animals make a sloth's metabolic rate look impressive.

You are confusing a squids diet requirements with it's capacity to injure or kill with its tentacles or beak.

Predators that prey on much smaller animals typically have unimpresive weaponry, and I will assume the same of the clossal squid until proven otherwise.

On to the sperm whale issue. A sperm whale is a predator that can be over 10 times the size of even the largest squids so of course the squid can't mortally injure one. The point proves your "squids are unimpressive" is even more destroyed in this case because the hooks on squids tentacles can cause some damage to a predator over 10x its size.

Rats are also capable of giving much larger human's scars as well, that can be more than a hundred times their size.



www.ratztails.co.uk/supportforum/Blah.pl?m-1264254675/

If a single squid was able to cause all those injuries on the whale I would be impressed, but that is most likely not the case as sperm whales habitually prey on large squid. Also have you ever considered that these scars were obtained when the sperm whales was young and inexperinced?

Even to the point it leaves heavily visible scarring on the whale. Could a crocodile do the this to a bull sperm whale?

I don't know but that is irrelvant to this match.

[Runic]

Sept 12, 2013 2:18:21 GMT 5 Supercommunist said:

The point still stands. The general census is tetrapod predators hunt prey smaller than them on a daily basis. Therefore by your flawed logic, just because animal like wolves mainly hunt animal they outweigh means they are incapable of killing animal much bigger than them correct because after all they are tetrapods?

No, just because an animal is a tetrapod does NOT mean they mainly hunt prey smaller than themselves, big game hunters like smilidon are a prime example of this. If anything your logic is flawed not mine.

1. Squids have hooked tentacles whos purpose is to grapple and maul prey regardless as seen here

Herons have beaks adapted for stabbing and impaling prey, but we should assume that this only applies to smaller animals as they are adapted to eating smaller animals.

2. Squid only hunt toothfish because it's all they need to survive and because they have slow metabolism.

And when an animal's prey options are limited they generally become specalized for hunting those animals.

Nothing in the article you posted infers they were incapable of killing animal their size.

Well, do you have any evidence that giant squid are capable of killing large animals?

It just inferred they didn't need much food.

Which should tell you how slow and ungaily they probably are. These animals make a sloth's metabolic rate look impressive.

You are confusing a squids diet requirements with it's capacity to injure or kill with its tentacles or beak.

Predators that prey on much smaller animals typically have unimpresive weaponry, and I will assume the same of the clossal squid until proven otherwise.

On to the sperm whale issue. A sperm whale is a predator that can be over 10 times the size of even the largest squids so of course the squid can't mortally injure one. The point proves your "squids are unimpressive" is even more destroyed in this case because the hooks on squids tentacles can cause some damage to a predator over 10x its size.

Rats are also capable of giving much larger human's scars as well, that can be more than a hundred times their size.



www.ratztails.co.uk/supportforum/Blah.pl?m-1264254675/

If a single squid was able to cause all those injuries on the whale I would be impressed, but that is most likely not the case as sperm whales habitually prey on large squid. Also have you ever considered that these scars were obtained when the sperm whales was young and inexperinced?

Even to the point it leaves heavily visible scarring on the whale. Could a crocodile do the this to a bull sperm whale?

I don't know but that is irrelvant to this match.

"As with all tetrapod anatomy, Deinonychus mostly hunted animal smaller than itself"
Keyword - "as in all tetrapod anatomy"
source -Origin of flapping in aves
Your point is void. Tetrapod hunt prey they outweigh more often than those they don't. I guess big cats and dromaeosauridae have unimpressive weapons correct? And wrong again, Smilodon had a lower maximum prey size than lions. As i said, your logic is uninformed and flawed.

2. Yes rats can implying despite the size difference and other factors their weaponry is sufficient to injure larger animal. Your point is void yet again as ive shown squid have the tools to injure or even kill a croc if they can injure sperm whales in defense.

3. So you admit those scars were caused by squids defending themselves? Where's "they are unimpressive" at now? Since they have weapons capable of injuring whales. It doesn't matter how old the whale is. Exp doesn't stop hooks from tearing your skin.

4. It actually is relevant as you obviously think a crocodile has better weapons than a squid. Now answer the question truthfully. Could a crocodile do that to a sperm whale?

5. You keep sounding as if squids are slow as snails. Yet
1.bp.blogspot.com/-rlGSQI2Oop8/ToEfZTYHtTI/AAAAAAAAAsk/jYGcd7J4_AY/s280/slide_squid03.jpg
^ they obviously are active enough to defend themselves and do that to predators significantly bigger than them. Can a sloth do that or a crocodile? By your horrible logic from a paper describing the diet of squids I guess crocodile are inferior at everything compared to squid?

[Supercommunist]

Your point is void. Tetrapod hunt prey they outweigh more often than those they don't.

Tetrapods consist of mostly small unimpressive animals so that's a given.

I guess big cats and dromaeosauridae have unimpressive weapons correct?

Again those two animals are still adapted to hunting big game, while collosal squid are not, you yourself admitted that they are virtually forced to prey on much smaller animals. Besides the typical prey of canines and big cats aren't that much smaller than them, the predators probably being only two times their size max. Collosal squid on the other hand are massive animals that can weigh more than a thousand pounds, but they primarily feed on an animal that CAN be around the size of a small human. Empathize" on "can as those sizes are not typical of that species of fish.

And wrong again, Smilodon had a lower maximum prey size than lions. As i said, your logic is uninformed and flawed.

Really? Because almost every source remarks on how specalized they are for hunting large prey.

2. Yes rats can implying despite the size difference and other factors their weaponry is sufficient to injure larger animal. Your point is void yet again as ive shown squid have the tools to injure or even kill a croc if they can injure sperm whales in defense.

So I suppose that a rat has the tools to seriously injure a cat or even kill one because it can cause superficial injuries on humans?

3. So you admit those scars were caused by squids defending themselves? Where's "they are unimpressive" at now?

I've always been aware of the fact that large squid can cause scarring on whales.

It doesn't matter how old the whale is.

That is ludcrious. The older the whale the larger it is.

Exp doesn't stop hooks from tearing your skin.

No, but it can help prevent it from happening in the first place.

4. It actually is relevant as you obviously think a crocodile has better weapons than a squid.

No, its not. A crocodiles teeth and jaws function diffrently than that of a collosal squid.

Now answer the question truthfully.

Are you accusing me of being dishonest?

Could a crocodile do that to a sperm whale?

Could a squids hooks pierce a sea turtles shell? I doubt it, and personally don't actually care as that is about as relevant to this match as your squid whale example.

5. You keep sounding as if squids are slow as snails. Yet

How about you actually read the article? A one thosuand pound squid can survive off of ten pounds of fish for two hundred day, that is an astoudingly slow metabolism, and animals with a slow metabolism tend to be slower than those with faster ones. I doubt squid are an exception to that rule.

By your horrible logic

I find these worlds hilariously ironic.

[Runic]

Sept 12, 2013 3:19:05 GMT 5 Supercommunist said:

Your point is void. Tetrapod hunt prey they outweigh more often than those they don't.

Tetrapods consist of mostly small unimpressive animals so that's a given.

I guess big cats and dromaeosauridae have unimpressive weapons correct?

Again those two animals are still adapted to hunting big game, while collosal squid are not, you yourself admitted that they are virtually forced to prey on much smaller animals. Besides the typical prey of canines and big cats aren't that much smaller than them, the predators probably being only two times their size max. Collosal squid on the other hand are massive animals that can weigh more than a thousand pounds, but they primarily feed on an animal that CAN be around the size of a small human. Empathize" on "can as those sizes are not typical of that species of fish.

And wrong again, Smilodon had a lower maximum prey size than lions. As i said, your logic is uninformed and flawed.

Really? Because almost every source remarks on how specalized they are for hunting large prey.

2. Yes rats can implying despite the size difference and other factors their weaponry is sufficient to injure larger animal. Your point is void yet again as ive shown squid have the tools to injure or even kill a croc if they can injure sperm whales in defense.

So I suppose that a rat has the tools to seriously injure a cat or even kill one because it can cause superficial injuries on humans?

3. So you admit those scars were caused by squids defending themselves? Where's "they are unimpressive" at now?

I've always been aware of the fact that large squid can cause scarring on whales.

It doesn't matter how old the whale is.

That is ludcrious. The older the whale the larger it is.

Exp doesn't stop hooks from tearing your skin.

No, but it can help prevent it from happening in the first place.

4. It actually is relevant as you obviously think a crocodile has better weapons than a squid.

No, its not. A crocodiles teeth and jaws function diffrently than that of a collosal squid.

Now answer the question truthfully.

Are you accusing me of being dishonest?

Could a crocodile do that to a sperm whale?

Could a squids hooks pierce a sea turtles shell? I doubt it, and personally don't actually care as that is about as relevant to this match as your squid whale example.

5. You keep sounding as if squids are slow as snails. Yet

How about you actually read the article? A one thosuand pound squid can survive off of ten pounds of fish for two hundred day, that is an astoudingly slow metabolism, and animals with a slow metabolism tend to be slower than those with faster ones. I doubt squid are an exception to that rule.

By your horrible logic

I find these worlds hilariously ironic.

1. WRONG. Tetrapod are any animal with 4 limbs That ranges from tiny lizard to humungous mammoths. Even then it refutes your earlier point. Comprehend my posts before replying and stop changing up your incorrect opinion. It doesnt matter how much smaller the prey is the fact is "Tetrapod mainly hunt prey SMALLER than them".

2. Yes it does. Rats can gnaw through steel piping. Flesh should be no issue. The fact is cats are much larger predators as are humans. Colossal squid overlap weights with crocodile.

3. No. But its beak could. Its more relevant than that bullshit diet paper you posted to imply squids are unimpressive just because they dont actively hunt.

4. Does skin magically grow armor from exp? No it couldn't no matter how exp or big the whale was because it has no way of keeping the squid from grabbing its head when it tries to eat it. Then again, sperm whales hunt prey less than 10x their size! Does that mean a great white shark can beat one up by your horrible logic???

5. That doesn't slow them down from injuring whales trying to eat them now does it?

6. What I find hilariously ironic is how you fail to comprehend the paper you yourself posted as means to imply squids are unimpressive and incapable of hurting a crocodile. And how you don't even know what a tetrapod is !! LMFAO

Edit: Yes smilodon had a lower maximum prey size than lions. Creature can link the paper as I'm sure he kept it in thought.

[Supercommunist]

1. WRONG. Tetrapod are any animal with 4 limbs That ranges from tiny lizard to humungous mammoths. Even then it refutes your earlier point.

Exactly, the most common tetrapods are small lizards, amphibians, rodents, ect.

2. Yes it does. Rats can gnaw through steel.

So you seriously believe that a rat could kill a cat more than eight times its size?

Its more relevant than that bullshit diet paper you posted to imply squids are unimpressive.

That "bullshit" paper was written by people far more qualfied to judge the squids hunting abilities than you ever will be.

4. Does skin magically grow armor from exp?

Never claimed it did.

No it couldn't no matter how exp the whale was because it has no way of keeping the squid from grabbing its head when it tries to eat it.

Your opinion and mine appreantly differ then.

5. That doesn't slow them down from injuring whales now does it?

Slashing at something with an appanedge does not require particularly fast locomative abilities. Anteaters are a good example of this.

What I find hilariously ironic is how you fail to comprehend the paper you yourself posted as means to imply squids are unimpressive and incapable of hurting a crocodile.

First of all, just because you disagree with me doesn't mean that I failed to comprehend the paper, and second of all I never claimed that the squid was totally incapable of injuring the crocodile.

And how you don't even know what a tetrapod is !!

I am more than aware of what a tetrapod is, which one of my posts implies that I don't?

LMFAO

Well this text perfectly reflects the quality of your posts in this thread if you ask me. You have proven yourself to be an immature, overly hostile, disrespectful poster. I'm starting to wonder if your banning at carnivora was actually as injust as you claimed it was.

[Runic]

1. "As in ALL tetrapod anatomy."
- Your argument is invalid

2. "If you do not understand my posts do not quote me" - Black Ice

3. "You fail to comprehend." - Black Ice. Hunting and fighting are two different things.

4. "Exp matters cause it keeps it from happening." - SC
So I guess the whale grows limbs from exp or armor correct? Since it has no other way to counter a squid ripping its skin off?

5. Anteater can defend themselves from cougar and jaguar with slashing.

6. "They make sloth metabolism look good."
^ apparently you did. Need I explain your own post to you?

7. When people repost the same crap, quote me without understanding my posts (which you have been doing this whole time despite me begging you not to quote me if you dont understand), and claim false stuff then yes I get a little impolite. I could care less how you rate me as it doesn't impede my point here. Squids are not unimpressive despite the same stuff you keep repeating. Don't like it? Don't keep quoting me if you don't understand my point. You think I'm bad? You obviously haven't gotten on Taipan or Vodmeisters bad side. And I pray you never do. I gave you multiple warnings which you ignored. I doubt they would give you the same leeway.

[Fragillimus335]

Lol, the crocodile has this fight locked up. It generally outweighs the squid by a decent margin, has more swimming ability, (No drowning scenario), has massively superior weaponry, a faster metabolism, much greater defensive capabilities, and the squid can do pretty much nothing to it. I doubt a squid's beak would do very much penetrating into a 1000lb+ croc, and for some reason Black Ice seems to believe a squid has the mental capacity to aim it's bite at the crocs braincase, which I find laughable.


Croc-97% victory