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Post by Runic on Sept 12, 2013 4:27:54 GMT 5
Lol, the crocodile has this fight locked up. It generally outweighs the squid by a decent margin, has more swimming ability, (No drowning scenario), has massively superior weaponry, a faster metabolism, much greater defensive capabilities, and the squid can do pretty much nothing to it. I doubt a squid's beak would do very much penetrating into a 1000lb+ croc, and for some reason Black Ice seems to believe a squid has the mental capacity to aim it's bite at the crocs braincase, which I find laughable. Croc-97% victory You know what's laughable? How you have failed to comprehend my posts as well. I never said anything about the squid biting through the crocodile skull. I simply stated their beak can pierce it's armor since after all freaking otter and 130lb leopards have as well. Defense capabilities? What is a crocodile gonna do to a squid firmly wrapped around its body like a python except with multiple hooked limbs and a beak? You do realise if those hooks can tear sperm whale skin it can certainly tear open the crocodile soft underbelly? Added the crocodiles jaws won't cause serious damage to something as soft and squishy as a squid? Honestly before you try and demean me how about you actually read my post and think before replying with my alias in your mouth? Cause if you don't I will make you look stupid. Anything else you want to lie out your ass stating I claimed it? If I were you I'd refrain from putting my Alias in your post in correlation to some bs I never implied or even claimed outright. |
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Post by Supercommunist on Sept 12, 2013 4:33:19 GMT 5
I understood most of your points which is why I quoted you.
Yes, but they are related when concering predators.
Yes, that is my opinion.
No, but it could learn where the squids vulnerable areas and kill it instantly, or expolit a possible flank where the squid is less able to defend itself.
The format of your post is extremely diseroiting for me so I don't exactly get what your trying to convey for these two posts.
From the way I saw it, you were the one spewing garabge, but unlike you I was civil enough not to talk condescendingly to you up until the point you implied I was a dishonest liar.
When I quote a person's post I do it so that I can reply to their point, ask a question, and simply because I find it to make my posts look more organized. And you did not beg, you simply asked me not to in a way that I led me to belive you were "talking" to me in a rude manner, and I also believed that I more than understood your points.
Too bad I disagree with them.
I said collosal squid were unimpressive fighters for their size, not the entire squid family.
If collosal squids proved to be impressive fighters I would actually be pleasantly suprised as they are one of my favorite animals.
Like I said, I more than understood your posts, and even if I didn't I still would quote them. It is simply the way I post. If you don't like it politetly back out. I personally am not too fond with the way you organize your posts, but you didn't see me complaining until now.
Former, yes many times. Latter, no.
You gave me one (as well as one to creature which I didn't see until now} which I unfortunately perecived as a more subtle way of calling me dumb, rather than a non-hostile request which I apologize for. Though that still doesn't exuse your behavior.
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Fragillimus335
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Sauropod fanatic, and dinosaur specialist
Posts: 573
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Post by Fragillimus335 on Sept 12, 2013 4:35:17 GMT 5
May I quote your short term mind... Quote from Black Ice. " And that's relevant to it just holding the croc under water how? Or biting through the secured crocs skull with that beak?
Exactly."
Please begin TO SUCK ON IT.
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Post by Runic on Sept 12, 2013 4:44:29 GMT 5
I understood most of your points which is why I quoted you. Yes, but they are related. Yes, that is my opinion. No, but it could learn where the squids vulnerable areas and kill it instantly, or expolit a possible flank where the squid is less able to defend itself. The format of your post is extremely diseroiting for me so I don't exactly get what your trying to convey for these two posts. From the way I saw it, you were the one spewing garabge, but unlike you I was civil enough not to talk condescendingly to you up until the point you implied I was a dishonest liar. When I quote a person's post I do it so that I can reply to their point,ask a question, and simply because I find it to make my posts look more organized. And you did not beg, you simply asked me not to in a way that I led me to belive you were "talking" to me in a rude manner, and I also believed that I more than understood your points. Too bad I disagree with them. I said collosal squid were unimpressive fighters for their size, not tbe entire family. If collosal squid proved to be impressive fighters I would actually be pleasantly suprised as they are one of my favorite animals. Like I said, I more than understood your posts, and even if I didn't I still would quote them. It is simply the way I post. If you don't like it politetly back out. I personally am not too fond with the way you organize your posts, but you didn't see me compaining did you? Former, yes many times. Latter, no. You gave me one (as well as one to creature which I didn't see until} which I unfortunately perecived as a more subtle way of calling me dumb, rather than a non-hostile request which I apologize for. Though that still doesn't exuse your behavior. 1. Apparently you didn't otherwise I wouldn't have explained my point to you in ever post after you. Example - tetrapod hunting, the squid vs whale scenario, telling you what I meant by a rat having the weapons CAPACITY to injure a cat. 2. Not in the way you impy. 3. I have no problem with it being your opinion. I was simply furthering my explanation. 4. So in short, ambushing it. That what you mean? 5. I'm on a phone so I can't multi quote like you. But they should be in order correlated with yours. 6. See what I mean? I wasn't even referring to you there. I was being general. 7. Apparently you didn't. It'd be much more easier to just ask what I mean rather than assume as I did in point 4 to you. 8. That's on you. 9. Apparently sperm whales disagree 10. I wasn't referring to squids. 11. On a phone. 12. I never meant to imply you were dumb. I'm sorry. I just was trying to pass a point which due to my time on CF could only be asserted if I aggressively said it. I honestly have no issues with you thinking a crocodile would win. My issue is with everyone saying squids are unimpressive because they are lethargic. |
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Post by Runic on Sept 12, 2013 4:45:50 GMT 5
May I quote your short term mind... Quote from Black Ice. " And that's relevant to it just holding the croc under water how? Or biting through the secured crocs skull with that beak? Exactly." Please begin TO SUCK ON IT. Do you understand the term stating multiple scenarios? Once again. Do not quote me if you are too stupid to understand what I'm saying. You did the same stuff to me on CF. Though I will admit that last part had me rolling lmao. |
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Fragillimus335
Member
Sauropod fanatic, and dinosaur specialist
Posts: 573
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Post by Fragillimus335 on Sept 12, 2013 8:37:08 GMT 5
I will stand by my "suck on it" statement.  |
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Post by Runic on Sept 12, 2013 8:42:30 GMT 5
I will stand by my "suck on it" statement. What "it"? Certainly you don't mean that almost non existent piece of reproduction you posses? lmao (it's a joke) |
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Fragillimus335
Member
Sauropod fanatic, and dinosaur specialist
Posts: 573
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Post by Fragillimus335 on Sept 12, 2013 8:54:38 GMT 5
I will stand by my "suck on it" statement. What "it"? Certainly you don't mean that almost non existent piece of reproduction you posses? lmao (it's a joke) Oh Ho! Desecrating a gentleman's gentleman! Gasp! Editors Note: "Almost non-existent" is traditional slang for "quite massive", as evidenced by its usage in the above statement. |
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Post by Runic on Sept 12, 2013 9:56:48 GMT 5
What "it"? Certainly you don't mean that almost non existent piece of reproduction you posses? lmao (it's a joke) Oh Ho! Desecrating a gentleman's gentleman! Gasp! Editors Note: "Almost non-existent" is traditional slang for "quite massive", as evidenced by its usage in the above statement. LMFAO !!! However kind sir I'm not using the slang definition !! A good day to you now !!! |
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Post by theropod on Sept 12, 2013 16:25:23 GMT 5
I´ve got issues with a few points.
"the croc has a size advantage"
---I highly doubt that´s true, as I already explained two pages back. The crocodile has a size advantage at maximum over one of only few adult squids ever caught. It appears that there are significantly larger squids only known from incomplete remains from sperm whale gut, and those might outweigh even the biggest salties.
"the squid is unimpressive because it´s slow"
---Mesonychotheuthis has some serious weaponery along with an anatomy that makes speed redundant. With all those arms it would have good chances of latching onto an opponent--the same way it does with sperm whales, even tough it´s slow.
"It´s unimpressive because it takes small prey"
---Perhaps unimpressive as a predator, which doesn´t equal unimpressive as a fighter. While that´s not obligatory, as compared to certain fighting capabilities that are necessary for a macrophagous predator, many animals that are piscivores or herbivores can be very dangerous opponents. Examples such as anteaters or spermwhales have already been given.
"sloths have faster metabolic rates"
---Sorry, but is there any proof of that? You cannot equate the amount of food a foliovore eats with that of a piscivore, these diets have completely different specific nutritional values.
"The crocodile´s bite would do little harm to the soft body of the squid"
---Of course a 3t bite force would totally devastate that soft body. An animal with cutting teeth will be even more effective on it (eg. a great white), but that doesn´t mean a rocodile would have a hard time injuring it, after all it could be able to bite down on the unprotected brain or other internal organs (which is just the same as often performed by carnivores with crushing bites, just with bones in the way). It may not be the most apt at killing large opponents and would usually just drown them, but the squid has very little protection against its attacks.
"Black Ice is ..."
---You guys realise he was just toying with you for the fun of debating, right?
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Post by creature386 on Sept 12, 2013 19:11:33 GMT 5
Edit: Yes smilodon had a lower maximum prey size than lions. Creature can link the paper as I'm sure he kept it in thought. It looks like I forgot about that paper (Do you remember where I posted this or where someone has shown it to me? Maybe I can find it than.). I tried to find such a paper, but I couldn't find data about the maximum prey size just statements like this: www.pnas.org/content/104/41/16010.fullIt's bite was weaker, but that doesn't mean it's prey was smaller (the paper explains how it kills with weak adductor forces). "sloths have faster metabolic rates" ---Sorry, but is there any proof of that? You cannot equate the amount of food a foliovore eats with that of a piscivore, these diets have completely different specific nutritional values. I don't know about the metabolic rate of sloths, so I am not going to make judgements, but here you have the one of the squid (if you want to make comparisons): journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=7911364"Black Ice is ..." ---You guys realise he was just toying with you for the fun of debating, right? Uhm, just because he does sometimes, it doesn't mean he always does so. He already had many serious debates (see Vodmeister vs Black Ice history, you could take opponents like Vita or 221extra as well). |
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Post by Runic on Sept 12, 2013 21:45:00 GMT 5
This time I was only partly doing that. I was pretty serious though.
Yes thank you for pointing that out!
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Post by theropod on Sept 12, 2013 22:33:20 GMT 5
I know that, just it's sometimes hard to asess whether and to what extent you are being serious.  As I understand you were also serious with your opinion that T. rex would beat Triceratops (which I'm now inclined to believe given that Triceratops was on average smaller than I would have tought, altough at maximum I still favour it), and yet you were playing with me back then... Many tetrapod predators also take large prey animals at least sometimes, and on occasion there are ones that are actually specialized in doing so (eg. Smilodon). I'm not quite sure how relevant (or how reliable, since Smilodon and most of it's prey are extinct) maximum prey size is considering Lion's are social animals that hunt cooperatively, and what prey they might bring down in prides (the occasional hippo or even elephant) doesn't reflect the capabilities of a single individual. Average prey size should give a much better view of dietary specialization anyway (which probably is what reports on Smilodon are talking about), even tough maximum reflects the potential an animal has. Animals that are not macrophagous are obviously not automatically adapted for fighting large animals (heron, bat), but some are, for purposes such as defense or intraspecific fighting (Anteater, Hippo, Cassowary...). The diet alone doesn't let you reliably judge about an animal's fighting ability. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2014 15:42:02 GMT 5
The croc has to touch the squid, therefore the squid doesn't need to move much. The rest should be self explanatory. How much damage would the squid's beak do to the crocodiles' armor? The answer is not much. How much damage would the crocodile's jaws do to the squid's soft body? I'll let you answer that one. I also don't see a 300 kg squid being able to drown a 1000 kg crocodile very easily. A 1,000 kg crocodile is huge, not the average size for the crocodile. The squid wins this 7/10. |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jan 7, 2014 1:07:50 GMT 5
Someone on Carnivora stated this fight is not possible in real life. I think he said the squid could not survive warm waters that the crocodile likes to be in, and the crocodile could not survive cold waters that the squid likes to be in.
Just sayin'.
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As I understand you were also serious with your opinion that T. rex would beat Triceratops (which I'm now inclined to believe given that Triceratops was on average smaller than I would have tought, altough at maximum I still favour it), and yet you were playing with me back then...
