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Post by malikc6 on Jun 21, 2014 2:35:41 GMT 5
The only way the wolf could defeat a cougar is if it got extremely lucky, or is much heavier than the cougar. Likely an alpha male wolf at it's max weight against a female cougar. Even then, the wolf would have to deal with an enemy with claws, better teeth, and better forearms for grappling. The wolf would have to rely solely on its weight and size. Maybe at some point, it could wear the cougar out since wolves have more stamina. Once the cougar is tired, the wolf could then finish it off.
I don't think there is many wolves in the world able to successfully kill a full grown primal male cougar though.
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LeopJag
Member
Panthera kryptikos (cryptic, evasive panther)
Posts: 440
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Post by LeopJag on Jun 21, 2014 6:19:16 GMT 5
Cats usually smoke dogs at parity. I back the cougar 7/10 From what I recall pantherines smoke domestic dogs at parity. With everything else it's pretty much the reverse. Cougar and Wolves are exempt because they're never the same size when they encounter. But domestic dogs be tearing up domestic cats at parity. Cougars (felinae cat) and leopards (a pantherinea cat) are practically on the same level at parity. |
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Post by Runic on Jun 21, 2014 8:18:06 GMT 5
The only way the wolf could defeat a cougar is if it got extremely lucky, or is much heavier than the cougar. Likely an alpha male wolf at it's max weight against a female cougar. Even then, the wolf would have to deal with an enemy with claws, better teeth, and better forearms for grappling. The wolf would have to rely solely on its weight and size. Maybe at some point, it could wear the cougar out since wolves have more stamina. Once the cougar is tired, the wolf could then finish it off. I don't think there is many wolves in the world able to successfully kill a full grown primal male cougar though. The hell? |
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Post by Runic on Jun 21, 2014 8:18:54 GMT 5
From what I recall pantherines smoke domestic dogs at parity. With everything else it's pretty much the reverse. Cougar and Wolves are exempt because they're never the same size when they encounter. But domestic dogs be tearing up domestic cats at parity. Cougars (felinae cat) and leopards (a pantherinea cat) are practically on the same level at parity. Was that aimed at the cougar wolf part or the cat and dog part? |
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Post by malikc6 on Jun 21, 2014 9:01:16 GMT 5
The only way the wolf could defeat a cougar is if it got extremely lucky, or is much heavier than the cougar. Likely an alpha male wolf at it's max weight against a female cougar. Even then, the wolf would have to deal with an enemy with claws, better teeth, and better forearms for grappling. The wolf would have to rely solely on its weight and size. Maybe at some point, it could wear the cougar out since wolves have more stamina. Once the cougar is tired, the wolf could then finish it off. I don't think there is many wolves in the world able to successfully kill a full grown primal male cougar though. The hell? What? |
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Post by Runic on Jun 21, 2014 20:11:48 GMT 5
what you said makes zero since. If cougar were that superior they'd be curbing packs of wolves before they get killed themselves. Yet when a pack meets a cat not a single wolf dies but the cat wounds up killed. A "Max Alpha Wolf" would trash a female cougar. |
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Post by malikc6 on Jun 22, 2014 0:49:49 GMT 5
what you said makes zero since. If cougar were that superior they'd be curbing packs of wolves before they get killed themselves. Yet when a pack meets a cat not a single wolf dies but the cat wounds up killed. A "Max Alpha Wolf" would trash a female cougar. What I said was correct. Cougars have superior forearms for grappling and have claws. Not to mention that they are more agile. A alpha wolf could probably defeat a female cougar but it would be anything but easy. It's weight, size, and stamina would be it's advantages. And I can see why a cougar wouldn't be able to kill a single wolf if an entire PACK attacked it. |
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LeopJag
Member
Panthera kryptikos (cryptic, evasive panther)
Posts: 440
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Post by LeopJag on Jun 22, 2014 1:27:39 GMT 5
Cougars (felinae cat) and leopards (a pantherinea cat) are practically on the same level at parity. Was that aimed at the cougar wolf part or the cat and dog part? Yup. |
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Post by Runic on Jun 22, 2014 6:11:46 GMT 5
what you said makes zero since. If cougar were that superior they'd be curbing packs of wolves before they get killed themselves. Yet when a pack meets a cat not a single wolf dies but the cat wounds up killed. A "Max Alpha Wolf" would trash a female cougar. What I said was correct. Cougars have superior forearms for grappling and have claws. Not to mention that they are more agile. A alpha wolf could probably defeat a female cougar but it would be anything but easy. It's weight, size, and stamina would be it's advantages. And I can see why a cougar wouldn't be able to kill a single wolf if an entire PACK attacked it. Ignorance is bliss. A MAX sized wolf is 175 (190 if you take the Russian report) pounds. A FEMALE cougar is 110lbs. Are you really that far up a cats ass that you believe a 175lb wolf wouldn't do anything but utterly maul a 110lb cougar? Even a avg 150lbs male cougar would be killed. And incorrect cats have killed multiple domestic dogs at once when they're attacked but they can't even kill a single wolf when they're surrounded by a pack. Cougar don't seem as superior as you think. |
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Post by malikc6 on Jun 22, 2014 9:10:30 GMT 5
What I said was correct. Cougars have superior forearms for grappling and have claws. Not to mention that they are more agile. A alpha wolf could probably defeat a female cougar but it would be anything but easy. It's weight, size, and stamina would be it's advantages. And I can see why a cougar wouldn't be able to kill a single wolf if an entire PACK attacked it. Ignorance is bliss. A MAX sized wolf is 175 (190 if you take the Russian report) pounds. A FEMALE cougar is 110lbs. Are you really that far up a cats ass that you believe a 175lb wolf wouldn't do anything but utterly maul a 110lb cougar? Even a avg 150lbs male cougar would be killed. And incorrect cats have killed multiple domestic dogs at once when they're attacked but they can't even kill a single wolf when they're surrounded by a pack. Cougar don't seem as superior as you think. Wolves are better fighters than dogs for one. Heck when hunters used dogs to hunt wolves, the wolves often killed many of the dogs used to hunt them. Hunters said that wolves targeted vital areas and are bolder than dogs. Same thing with people who would pit dogs against other animals in pitfights. It doesn't surprise me that dogs in packs would still be killed by a cougar because they don't fight as well as wolves. They are very likely to just rush in and bite anything vulnerable, which of course can be a blunder. Wolves are bolder than dogs. A 110 pound female cougar would give a wolf of that size a run for its money but would eventually lose against the bigger wolf. I think you're underestimating the cougar's claws and forearms. And I highly disagree that a 150 pound male cougar would lose against a 175 pound male wolf. No insults please. |
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Post by malikc6 on Jun 22, 2014 9:21:22 GMT 5
Another reason why I give the cougar a bit more credit here is because cats seem more explosive when they fight. I feel like it would overwhelm the wolf in the beginning of the fight, if the wolf lasts that long. Dogs and wolves are explosive as well, but cats seem more ferocious and are a lot more agile. Dogs and wolves seem more aggressive as in, they are more willing to continue to fight and or start a fight.
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Post by Runic on Jun 22, 2014 13:28:49 GMT 5
Ignorance is bliss. A MAX sized wolf is 175 (190 if you take the Russian report) pounds. A FEMALE cougar is 110lbs. Are you really that far up a cats ass that you believe a 175lb wolf wouldn't do anything but utterly maul a 110lb cougar? Even a avg 150lbs male cougar would be killed. And incorrect cats have killed multiple domestic dogs at once when they're attacked but they can't even kill a single wolf when they're surrounded by a pack. Cougar don't seem as superior as you think. Wolves are better fighters than dogs for one. Heck when hunters used dogs to hunt wolves, the wolves often killed many of the dogs used to hunt them. Hunters said that wolves targeted vital areas and are bolder than dogs. Same thing with people who would pit dogs against other animals in pitfights. It doesn't surprise me that dogs in packs would still be killed by a cougar because they don't fight as well as wolves. They are very likely to just rush in and bite anything vulnerable, which of course can be a blunder. Wolves are bolder than dogs. A 110 pound female cougar would give a wolf of that size a run for its money but would eventually lose against the bigger wolf. I think you're underestimating the cougar's claws and forearms. And I highly disagree that a 150 pound male cougar would lose against a 175 pound male wolf. No insults please. In Once again incorrect a lone wolf killed a adult female cougar and the odds of it being a MAX sized alpha is almost non existent. Im not insulting you im stating the truth. Anyone who believes a 110lb cougar will give a 175lb wolf a run for its money knows very little. |
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Post by malikc6 on Jun 22, 2014 14:04:42 GMT 5
I did read something about a wolf killing a female cougar two years ago. I was never able to find the account though.
And why wouldn't it give it a run for its money? It is outweighed and likely less durable, that is understandable. But the cougar has better forearms for grappling and has claws. In my previous comment, I even stated that cats are a lot more explosive when fighting and they also are better at throwing paw swipes. I feel like in the beginning of the fight, the cougar would be all over the wolf. The wolf would be on the defensive but due to lack of power, the cougar likely would not be able to really hurt the wolf too much. I think it would exhaust itself leaving the wolf scratched and bitten up, but not too seriously injured. Once its out of gas, the wolf will counterattack. The cougar would eventually be killed, but I doubt it would be easy.
But if you disagree, please explain why.
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Post by creature386 on Jun 22, 2014 17:47:31 GMT 5
Well, after this logic, even in mismatches, animals can give each other a run for their money. After all, wolverine vs bear is also what everyone would consider as a mismatch, but the wolverine will be able to bite the bear, hurt it and so on. There is a reason why larger predators normally avoid them. Or in a cougar vs Haast's eagle battle the eagle can exhaust the cougar or give it painful injuries with its talons, but that doesn't change the near-mismatch status, assuming the Haast's eagle can't land a strike from above.
I believe Runic is intelligent enough to know that the wolf will not win this with one bite and will end up exhausted and so on, but that doesn't change the fact that the cougar doesn't stand much of a chance. If this is exactly your point, fine, but this argument can be applied to so many face-offs where we would say "mismatch".
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Post by Runic on Jun 22, 2014 22:38:05 GMT 5
Thank you for breaking it down to him.
By his logic a wolf would give a jaguar a run for it's money cause at one point it's gonna bite the cat lol
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