Prey defeating predators

[Supercommunist]

Phyrthic victory.

[Infinity Blade]

Common duiker vs cheetah, both adult females. The duiker was killed by the cheetah, but not before delivering a kick with its hoof that cut the cheetah's abdomen and femoral artery. The cheetah ended up bleeding to death overnight, despite receiving veterinary care.



journals.co.za/doi/pdf/10.3957/056.048.024001

Supercommunist

[Infinity Blade]

This is quite possibly the only footage I've seen of an ostrich actually acting aggressively towards predators, and spotted hyenas, no less. While there is no kill here, the ostrich chases a hyena and kicks at it, prompting the hyenas to retreat.

[Supercommunist]

[Supercommunist]

[Supercommunist]

Young giraffe kicks a lion.

[Supercommunist]

This probably isn't the right thread for this but I felt like talking about the more scientific orientated paleo community habit of treating carnivores like skittish opportunists. I get that they are sick of seeing carnivores treating herbivoreslike walking sacks of meat in hollywood, but c'mon do people really think an adult edmontosaurus was too dangerous for a tyrannosaurus to regularly hunt?

If it's not hunting edmontosaurus what on Earth were they eating? Besides egg eating snakes, I don't know any predator whose diet mostly consists of young animals. Some people argued that large sub adult dinosaur would have outnumbered full grown animals which would have made this tactic viable, but I don't buy that because that same rule rule would apply for the predators. Adult tyrannosaurus would have competed with sub adult and juveniles for these easier marks. Life in the wild is not easy. Most macropredators have no choice but to hunt hale prey.

[Infinity Blade]

Mar 14, 2023 5:09:54 GMT 5 Supercommunist said:

This probably isn't the right thread for this but I felt like talking about the more scientific orientated paleo community habit of treating carnivores like skittish opportunists. I get that they are sick of seeing carnivores treating herbivoreslike walking sacks of meat in hollywood, but c'mon do people really think an adult edmontosaurus was too dangerous for a tyrannosaurus to regularly hunt?

If it's not hunting edmontosaurus what on Earth were they eating? Besides egg eating snakes, I don't know any predator whose diet mostly consists of young animals. Some people argued that large sub adult dinosaur would have outnumbered full grown animals which would have made this tactic viable, but I don't buy that because that same rule rule would apply for the predators. Adult tyrannosaurus would have competed with sub adult and juveniles for these easier marks. Life in the wild is not easy. Most macropredators have no choice but to hunt hale prey.

Predator success rates vary considerably, one can't just make the suggestion that "polar bears succeed less than 2% of the time, so maybe T. rex failed as often too". Success rates are likely a function of prey densities, grouping patterns of prey species, changes in prey vulnerability, and the amount of experience in individual predators (link->).

For example, in some parts tigers can routinely kill adult gaurs 5 times their own weight (link->). In Thailand 45.2% of all gaur killed by tigers were adults, and 55.7% of all banteng were adults (Khaewphakdee et al., 2020). And a tiger absolutely does NOT stand a better chance of killing adult bovines 3.5-5 times its own weight than a T. rex does at killing a Edmontosaurus or Triceratops that's just as heavy as itself.

Also, "many potential preys were too dangerous in a 1v1 battle". Apart from the fact that a fully grown T. rex has weapons and size that are absolutely a match for at least most of the gigantic prey it lived with (save perhaps Alamosaurus), and would thus be every bit as dangerous to them as they are to it, prey being dangerous is literally why predators don't often try to fight their prey in a Carnivora-style death battle. Predators don't play fair. They ambush their prey (I'm pretty sure this is exactly why these tigers are so successful killing bovines many times their size), get them to flee instead of fight back, attack them while they're mired in snow/mud/tar, etc., etc. Of course, this isn't to say that they can't defeat some of their dangerous prey in a 1v1 fight, but the point is they absolutely do NOT have to be able to.

[Supercommunist]

Something else to consider is that climate change could be severely reducing polar bear hunting success and unlike most predators they can consume plant matter like kelp in a pinch.

Also, "many potential preys were too dangerous in a 1v1 battle". Apart from the fact that a fully grown T. rex has weapons and size that are absolutely a match for at least most of the gigantic prey it lived with (save perhaps Alamosaurus), and would thus be every bit as dangerous to them as they are to it, prey being dangerous is literally why predators don't often try to fight their prey in a Carnivora-style death battle. Predators don't play fair. They ambush their prey (I'm pretty sure this is exactly why these tigers are so successful killing bovines many times their size), get them to flee instead of fight back, attack them while they're mired in snow/mud/tar, etc., etc. Of course, this isn't to say that they can't defeat some of their dangerous prey in a 1v1 fight, but the point is they absolutely do NOT have to be able to.

Yeah while it's fair to say that tyrannosaurus rarely engaged in fights to the deaths with prey, I am sure the average rex was forced to deal with an aggressive herbviore at least a few times throughout their lives. It's not uncommon to see buffalo and boars take the fights to cats and I envision a trike would somtimes do.


Tiger kills an aggressive gaur.



Even fleeing animals can fight back so predators can't afford to be that conflict averse.

[Infinity Blade]

Oct 14, 2021 1:07:51 GMT 5 Infinity Blade said:

I guess I might as well post stuff with wild boars too.


Source

Possible instance of a tiger being killed by a wild boar.
timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/63590359.cms#%3A~%3Atext%3DAn%20adult%20tiger%20has%20been%2Cto%20nine%20in%20four%20months.%26text%3DInitially%2C%20forest%20officials%20suspected%20the%2Cevidence%20was%20found%20during%20autopsy?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

And an instance where both killed each other.
www.timesnownews.com/mirror-now/in-focus/article/prey-kills-predator-in-kaziranga-before-dying-wild-boar-inflicts-fatal-injuries-on-royal-bengal-tiger/649037

I think big cats and bears would win over suids at parity, but with say, canids, it would be more debatable.

More

Adult male wild boars are formidable adversaries weighing over 250 kilos, and Bromley describes a battle royal between a large male tiger and an old boar. The boar was killed but the tiger was later found dead of its wounds about 45 km away.

Prynn (1980)

Tiger mortalities due to wild boar have been recorded in the Trans-Caucasus and Iran (Brandt, 1856), Kazakhstan, Middle Asia, the Far East, and India. In the upper reaches of the Iman in the Ussuri region a wild boar gored a tigress to death, and her two surviving cubs died of starvation. In 1933 in the Baikin region a tiger weighing 120 kg was killed by a boar.

Geptner et al. (1989)

Though the wild hog often becomes its prey, it sometimes falls victim to the successful resistance of the wild boar. I once found a full-grown tiger newly killed, evidently by the rip of a boar's tusks; and two similar instances were related to me by a gentleman who had witnessed them – one of a tiger, the other of a panther.

Jerdon (1874)

[Infinity Blade]

An old account of a domestic boar killing a bear in a fight. Take it for what you will. Given that it takes place in what is now Arkansas, the bear would have been an American black bear.

A BOAR KILLS A BEAR IN A CANE BRAKE
By S. C. Tumbo

Occasionally a wild boar and a bear would meet when plenty of bear infested the upper White River country and a hard fight would ensue, the result of which either one or both of them would be slain. Away back when Arkansas was not a state Mike Yocum as we have said elsewhere settled in the river bottom just above the mouth of Shoal Creek. In what is now Boone County, Ark. This land was afterwards known as the Billy Holt place. Allin Trimble was Mike Yocum’s stepson and Trimble who was born in 1815 was a small boy when Mr. Yocum his stepfather lived in this bottom. One day in August, 1813, Mr. Trimble told me the following story about an encounter between a boar and bear that met in the cane in this bottom after Yocum settled here and engaged in a desperate fight leaving only one of the combatants alive. In this case it was not a wild boar that fought the bear, but a tame one. Mr. Trimble said that his stepfather owned a fine bunch of hogs which kept fat on the mast and vegetation in this bottom, but it was a serious task to prevent the wild beasts from destroying them. Among the bunch was a large male hog and a fine white sow, but my stepfather shot and killed the sow one day through mistake. He was passing through the cane toward the river bank when he noticed the glimpse of an animal following him. Thinking it was a panther he aimed his rifle at the object and pulled the trigger and a bullet crushed through the skull of the sow. Stepfather regretted that he never took time to find out what the animal was before he shot. Well, to the encounter between the boar and bear," said Mr. Trimble. "One day the hogs all came running to the yard fence except the boar. The hogs were in an uproar and had been disturbed by a wild beast which we supposed was a panther. We waited anxiously for the boar to put in an appearance. But the missing hog did not come up until two hours after the first ones had shown up. He was in a bad plight—was seriously wounded and covered with blood. He had been in a desperate combat with a wild beast and he was greatly angered and restless. We traced the back track of the boar through the cane to the spot where the encounter took place. A bear lay dead where the ferocious animals had struggled together. Cane, weeds, and paw paw bushes were mashed flat to the ground. Blood was sprinkled on the ground and foliage. The bear was mangled by the boar’s tusks almost beyond description. Deep gashes were cut and torn all over its body and legs. The greatest wounds were inflicted on its belly, breast behind the shoulders. It seemed that bruin was bent on fillin up on a mess of fresh pork but his attack on the bunch of swine was so stoutly resisted by the boar that his bearship was compelled to give up the feast and his life too," said Mr. Trimble.

thelibrary.org/lochist/turnbo/V14/ST439.html

[Supercommunist]

Crab turns the table on an eagle.

www.reddit.com/r/HardcoreNature/comments/17bz2oe/clash_of_the_titans_crab_vs_eagle_showdown/

[Supercommunist]

Female platypus drowns a rakali in self-defense.

www.reddit.com/r/HardcoreNature/comments/1abur7r/female_platypus_vs_rakali_waterrat_in_a_fight_to/

[Supercommunist]

Rare wildebeest win over a lion, a male no less.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqOUJ8nmkd8

[Supercommunist]

Ducks turn the tables on a hawk.

www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1b3loqi/hawk_messed_with_the_wrong_muscovy_duck_family/