Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 7:24:48 GMT 5
Quite close, but it looks the former can take it.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Feb 7, 2019 19:47:34 GMT 5
I favor the bear, it's larger, stronger, more durable, and has better stamina.
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mountainlord
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Tiger - The Legendary Killer of Brown bears
Posts: 309
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Post by mountainlord on Aug 27, 2019 4:26:30 GMT 5
Amur tigers, overall, dominate Brown bears in the wild. Head-to-head fight statistics also show that the tiger wins most face-to-face fights against Brown bears.Here's the fight statistics which clearly confirm the Amur tigers superiority over the Brown bear:These fights happened over kill-disputes - so adult animals were involved!In 44 head-on battles between tigers and brown bears, the tiger killed the Brown bear 22 times, and the bear won only 12 times. THE TIGER DOMINATED. www.carnivoreconservation.org/files/meetings/iba_2011.pdfThis is referring to those fights: - 22 Brown bears killed by tigers. bearbiology.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/IBN_High_November_2011.pdfIt is known that out of 44 cases of fights between tigers and brown bears - 50% ended with the death of the bears, 27% in the death of the tiger: translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&ei=yhlkSsf9KeOgjAf4r7zvDw&hl=en&nv=1&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwcs%2Brussia%2Btiger%2Bmonograph%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&u=https://russia.wcs.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/Download.aspx%3FEntryId%3D3252%26PortalId%3D32%26DownloadMethod%3Dattachment&xid=17259So thats 22 - 12 in favour of tigers!
There's many more additional cases of tigers killing Brown bears in head-on fights in the wild!...From one of the leading Amur tiger biologists - John GoodrichBiologist, John Goodrich in his interview to the BBC Wildlife Magazine stated - That he's found many Brown bears that were killed by tigers in fights: books.google.co.uk/books?id=GJhFAQAAIAAJ&q=in+my+work+i+have+found+many+bears+killed+by+tigers&dq=in+my+work+i+have+found+many+bears+killed+by+tigers&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjvmqvD-5_iAhXZTxUIHbQgCksQ6AEIKjAATiger killed a Brown bear after a 20-minute fight! - Bears fled from the tigers when tigers returned to their kills: ( G.F Gorokhov ) translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&ei=yhlkSsf9KeOgjAf4r7zvDw&hl=en&nv=1&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwcs%2Brussia%2Btiger%2Bmonograph%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&u=https://russia.wcs.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/Download.aspx%3FEntryId%3D3252%26PortalId%3D32%26DownloadMethod%3Dattachment&xid=17259Tiger kills a large Brown bear in a fight
"We heard one story about how a large brown bear having taken on a wild boar and covered it with scat and brushwood to make some “stewed boar, bear style,” suddenly got paid a visit by a hungry tiger. Oh how much blood got shed! The owner of the kill died from terrible wounds."
It also states - "All the researchers studying tiger kills point to a single cause of death: A bite through the neck vertebrae at the base of the skull. The predator can even kill bears this way. It deftly makes its approach and with a single bite, the victim is rendered motionless. Do what you will, the victim is not going to recover, the power of the jaw is unimaginable."
www.wf.ru/tiger/book/The%20Amur%20Tiger.pdfRussian biologist confirms that - as a rule - the tiger defeats the Brown bear in a fight
Here's a video of a Russian biologist stating that the tiger is the usual winner over the brown bear in a fight:
Biologist, Timofei Bazhenov: "I am often asked: If the tiger meets the brown bear in the taiga, who will win then? As a rule, the tiger wins. But it occurs that a Brown bear may win if it is big."
Note - A Russian authority himself stated that in general ( As a rule ) the tiger will kill the Brown bear in a fight. There's no disputing this, period.More fight statistics confirming that tigers win most fights against Brown bears.From Russian biologist - RukovskyRukovsky interviewed 42 local Russian hunters that had come across instances of tigers fighting with Brown bears. And here's what they had to say...."To clarify the relationship between these two predators, I interviewed 42 local hunters, old-timers Primorsky Krai. Of these, 7 people responded that the tiger specifically hunts for a bear; one man said that the bear walks in the footsteps of a tiger, collecting the remnants of its food; ( Scavenging left-overs ) 14 described the tiger-bear fights without a tragic outcome; 2 remembered when a bear strangled a tiger; 11 claimed that the tiger killed the bear, and, finally, 2 hunters assured that the bear leaves the grounds where the tiger appeared."
www.piterhunt.ru/Library/rukovskiy/po_sledam_lesnih_zverey/9.htm
First-hand testimonies from experienced hunters prove that tigers win far more fights against Brown bears than vice versa. Only two hunters knew of a case where a Brown bear killed a tiger, whereas ELEVEN hunters reported a case of a tiger killing a Brown bear in a fight. - So thats 11 - 2 in heavy favour of the tiger, as usual.This is also backed up by this journal, which documents all the recorded fights between tigers and Brown bears in the wild, from Russian biologists, naturalists, hunters. locals etc.... "S.P. Kucherenko notes that the average tiger is always stronger than the average bear"...
"But indeed from the scientific literature it follows that the tiger not only is NOT inferior to the bear, but even more frequently it leaves as conqueror"
shish02.livejournal.com/7269.html?thread=55909Every single fight statistic from the wild, blatantly shows the tigers superiority and dominance over the Brown bear. A Brown bear is a very formidable opponent, no denying that, however, in general, the tiger is the usual winner and ends up killing and devouring the bears, period.
The tiger is clearly superior without a doubt.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Aug 27, 2019 5:01:26 GMT 5
mountainlordI can for sure understand your reasons, but how is the tiger THAT much better? It's a very close match here and 6/10 is probably the best margin to favor one or the other
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mountainlord
Member
Tiger - The Legendary Killer of Brown bears
Posts: 309
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Post by mountainlord on Aug 27, 2019 17:40:20 GMT 5
mountainlord I can for sure understand your reasons, but how is the tiger THAT much better? It's a very close match here and 6/10 is probably the best margin to favor one or the other Because tigers win FAR MORE head-on fights against Brown bears, than vice versa. Thats why. I even posted a video of a Russian biologist (Authority) that stated that - AS A RULE - the tiger wins. That says it all. Also, the Amur tiger is clearly the far more dominant predator. It will deliberately hunt down a full-grown adult Brown bear to kill and devour it, and even when the ambush fails and it turns into a face-to-face fight, the tiger in most cases, still ends up killing and eating the bear. No doubt the Brown bear is a formidable opponent, but there's a very good reason why all the native Russian people widely regard the tiger as the UNDISPUTED LORD and master of the Ussuri taiga. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Aug 27, 2019 17:43:26 GMT 5
mountainlord I can for sure understand your reasons, but how is the tiger THAT much better? It's a very close match here and 6/10 is probably the best margin to favor one or the other 1:Because tigers win FAR MORE head-on fights against Brown bears, than vice versa. Thats why. I even posted a video of a Russian biologist (Authority) that stated that - AS A RULE - the tiger wins. That says it all. 2:Also, the Amur tiger is clearly the far more dominant predator. It will deliberately hunt down a full-grown adult Brown bear to kill and devour it, and even when the ambush fails and it turns into a face-to-face fight, the tiger in most cases, still ends up killing and eating the bear. No doubt the Brown bear is a formidable opponent, but there's a very good reason why all the native Russian people widely regard the tiger as the UNDISPUTED LORD and master of the Ussuri taiga. 1: Maybe that's because the bears don't go looking for trouble? Since they are omnivores, they can go eat some juicy berries instead of pick a fight with a tiger, for example 2: That may be a bit of a biased representation; bears do not hunt tigers |
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mountainlord
Member
Tiger - The Legendary Killer of Brown bears
Posts: 309
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Post by mountainlord on Aug 27, 2019 17:49:39 GMT 5
1:Because tigers win FAR MORE head-on fights against Brown bears, than vice versa. Thats why. I even posted a video of a Russian biologist (Authority) that stated that - AS A RULE - the tiger wins. That says it all. 2:Also, the Amur tiger is clearly the far more dominant predator. It will deliberately hunt down a full-grown adult Brown bear to kill and devour it, and even when the ambush fails and it turns into a face-to-face fight, the tiger in most cases, still ends up killing and eating the bear. No doubt the Brown bear is a formidable opponent, but there's a very good reason why all the native Russian people widely regard the tiger as the UNDISPUTED LORD and master of the Ussuri taiga. 1: Maybe that's because the bears don't go looking for trouble? Since they are omnivores, they can go eat some juicy berries instead of pick a fight with a tiger, for example 2: That may be a bit of a biased representation; bears do not hunt tigers |
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Post by creature386 on Aug 27, 2019 18:35:39 GMT 5
Alright, cleaned up this thread a bit. Your posts are archived in the member's cafe in case you still want to see them or really want them back.
Start again.
No references to any backstory and no slurs. Should be simple.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Aug 27, 2019 18:40:12 GMT 5
1: Maybe that's because the bears don't go looking for trouble? Since they are omnivores, they can go eat some juicy berries instead of pick a fight with a tiger, for example 2: That may be a bit of a biased representation; bears do not hunt tigers So, let's get this started again. The bears are not fighting to the same standard as the tigers. Hopefully, you know what I mean by that |
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kodiak
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 71
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Post by kodiak on Aug 27, 2019 19:14:16 GMT 5
So thats 22 - 12 in favour of tigers! # 1: its very doubtful that those 22 bears were killed in strictly face to face fights. Tigers are oficially classified as “ambush predators” this means they attack all animals from the back, or from a high place. One thing is “ambush hunting” and another very different thing is a face to face fight. And this is a basic fact about this debate. Hunting is one thing, and fighting is another. In those 22 cases where the tiger won, its the tiger who choses what bear to attack, and its a known fact that they attack the the cubs, subadults, and some adult females. The adult males avoid each other as much as possible. So the tigers are the hunters, and even with all that , bears have still killed tigers in the wild. BUT, BUT, what Mountain Lord here fails to show you guys is the CAPTIVE FIGHTS. This is the best way to see who wins in a fair face to face fight, locked in a cage, face to face, nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. And in captive fights, bears have basically destroyed tigers basically every time. EVEN 3 YOUNG BUT FULL GROWN TIGERD AT ONCE. And why do you guys think this is? Oh yeah, BECAUSE THE TIGER LOSES THE AMBUSH ADVANTAGE, THE SURPRISE. So here we have at least 20 cases of bears either killing or defeating tigers in captive fights. While there are probable 2 or 3 of tigers winning. SO FINAL SCORE IN FACE TO FACE FIGHS WOULD BE (ABOUT) : WILD: TIGERS 22, BEARS 12 CAPTIVITY:BEARS 20 TIGERS 3 FINAL SCORE IS BEARS 44, TIGERS 25. But i guess Mountain lord here fails to count the captive fights which are the REAL face to face fights. Here are all the accounts put together. Newspaper and book accounts. domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/512/bears-defeat-tigers-accounts |
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mountainlord
Member
Tiger - The Legendary Killer of Brown bears
Posts: 309
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Post by mountainlord on Aug 27, 2019 20:08:19 GMT 5
Alright, cleaned up this thread a bit. Your posts are archived in the member's cafe in case you still want to see them or really want them back. Start again. No references to any backstory and no slurs. Should be simple.
Now, we can debate this properly, and I can show everyone the facts and truth. |
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kodiak
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 71
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Post by kodiak on Aug 27, 2019 20:13:24 GMT 5
So lets continue: how can tigers “dominate” if tigers AVOID adult male brown bears at all costs?
RUSSIAN BIOLOGIST ALEXANDER BATALOV SAYS TIGERS DONT WANT ANY CONFLICT AND SIMPLY TRY TO AVOID LARGE BEARS.
programmes.putin.kremlin.ru/en/tiger/news/25556
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kodiak
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 71
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Post by kodiak on Aug 27, 2019 20:22:27 GMT 5
SOCIAL ORGANIZATION OF THE NORTHERN TUNGUS BY SERGEI MIKHAILOVICH SHIROKOGOROV- RUSSIAN ANTHROPOLOGIST en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._M._Shirokogoroff“IF A TIGER OCCUPIES A CERTAIN SMALL VALLEY, NO BEAR OR NO MAN MAY COME TO DISTURB IT” “NEITHER DOES THE TIGER GO TO THE VALLEYS OCCUPIED BY THE LARGE BEAR”  “THE PLACES BELONGING TO THE BEAR MAY EASILY BE RECOGNIZED BY MAN, BY THE TIGER, OR BY OTHER BEARS”  THE TIGER, ACCORDING TO THE TUNGUS, (INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF SIBERIA), IS NOT SO INTELLIGENT AS THE BEAR”  books.google.pl/books?ei=i7KfUtWXGMSVhQfx4YCQCg&hl=pl&id=_7wmAQAAMAAJ&dq=the+bear+slowly%2Cbut+surely+conquers+the+tiger&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=tigerMORE FROM SHIROKOGOROV: IF THE TIGER’S FIRST ATTACK SUCCEEDS AND THE BEAR FALLS DOWN, THE TIGER MASTERS HIS FOE AND KILLS HIM, IF NOT, THE BEAR SLOWLY BUT SURELY, CONQUERS THE TIGER AND KILLS IT.  |
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mountainlord
Member
Tiger - The Legendary Killer of Brown bears
Posts: 309
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Post by mountainlord on Aug 27, 2019 20:24:19 GMT 5
So thats 22 - 12 in favour of tigers! # 1: its very doubtful that those 22 bears were killed in strictly face to face fights. Tigers are oficially classified as “ambush predators” this means they attack all animals from the back, or from a high place. One thing is “ambush hunting” and another very different thing is a face to face fight. And this is a basic fact about this debate. Hunting is one thing, and fighting is another. In those 22 cases where the tiger won, its the tiger who choses what bear to attack, and its a known fact that they attack the the cubs, subadults, and some adult females. The adult males avoid each other as much as possible. So the tigers are the hunters, and even with all that , bears have still killed tigers in the wild. BUT, BUT, what Mountain Lord here fails to show you guys is the CAPTIVE FIGHTS. This is the best way to see who wins in a fair face to face fight, locked in a cage, face to face, nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. And in captive fights, bears have basically destroyed tigers basically every time. EVEN 3 YOUNG BUT FULL GROWN TIGERD AT ONCE. And why do you guys think this is? Oh yeah, BECAUSE THE TIGER LOSES THE AMBUSH ADVANTAGE, THE SURPRISE. So here we have at least 20 cases of bears either killing or defeating tigers in captive fights. While there are probable 2 or 3 of tigers winning. SO FINAL SCORE IN FACE TO FACE FIGHS WOULD BE (ABOUT) : WILD: TIGERS 22, BEARS 12 CAPTIVITY:BEARS 20 TIGERS 3 FINAL SCORE IS BEARS 44, TIGERS 25. But i guess Mountain lord here fails to count the captive fights which are the REAL face to face fights. Here are all the accounts put together. Newspaper and book accounts. domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/512/bears-defeat-tigers-accounts
1) I posted a video of a Russian biologist (Authority) clearly stating that - AS A RULE - the tiger will defeat the Brown bear in a fight. (Which means in most cases)
2) I posted an account where a tiger killed a LARGE Brown bear in a fight too. (Over a kill-dispute)
3) I posted another fight statistic, from Russian biologist (Rukovsky) which had tigers killing Brown bears in ELEVEN fights, and the bear winning only TWO!! The tiger dominated those statistics again.
Now, why did you outright ignore all these accounts from RUSSIAN AUTHORITIES that I posted?? Huh?....
Even after I showed a VIDEO, a video of a Russian biologist/expert stating that the tiger is the usual winner in a fight, you still continue to ignore the blatant evidence and spam the same old lies and crap. Why?
And Kodiak, even when the tigers ambush fails, and it turns into a face-to-face fight, in most cases, the tiger still ends up killing and eating the bear.
And captive accounts prove nothing! - There's barely any captive accounts of Brown bears killing adult male tigers, barely any. Its in the wild, is what matters, and in the wild, the tiger clearly, overall dominates the Brown bear.
You can NEVER match my fight statistics that I posted from actual Russian experts, period. Because all the fight statistics clearly show the tiger wins the VAST MAJORITY of head-on fights against Brown bears, fact.
Now, I'll be posting evidence from John Vaillant, which blatantly shows the tigers sheer dominance over the Brown bear.
I'll be back later.
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mountainlord
Member
Tiger - The Legendary Killer of Brown bears
Posts: 309
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Post by mountainlord on Aug 27, 2019 20:28:36 GMT 5
So lets continue: how can tigers “dominate” if tigers AVOID adult male brown bears at all costs?
RUSSIAN BIOLOGIST ALEXANDER BATALOV SAYS TIGERS DONT WANT ANY CONFLICT AND SIMPLY TRY TO AVOID LARGE BEARS.
programmes.putin.kremlin.ru/en/tiger/news/25556
"In January 1941, I encountered the prints of a very large brown bear near the mouth of the Ta-Kunzha River, a tributary of the Kema River; this animal, which had accidentally come across a tiger family on the trail, abandoned this path at a gallop. At another site, he came across the tracks of a male tiger and also turned away from the tiger's track."
sixote-alin.ru/books/kaplanov/tigr_en.html
This clearly shows that even the massive adult male brown bears have fear of male tigers!
I'll be back soon with way more evidence! Stay tuned.
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