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Post by 0ldgrizz on Jan 31, 2015 21:20:59 GMT 5
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Post by theropod on Jan 31, 2015 21:23:57 GMT 5
That video with the cub and the cougar is proof of "no fear whatsoever"? The grizzly was running away! And if you consider exchanging a few pawswipes with the cougar that relevant, then what about this→? I don’t care whether those were mature polar bears and barren ground grizzlies, the bottom line is that the polar bear shown in the video wasn’t any larger than the brown bear, and that there’s hardly any relevant action to be seen in that short piece of footage. btw, a simple youtube search turned up this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG_OHq6R1AEA black bear showing "no fear what-so-ever", and certainly standing its ground against a much larger grizzly bear. Funny, isn’t it? Certainly nothing so far that would make me believe that grizzlies would have "no fear what-so-ever" of significantly larger predators, or that "when a grizzly looks at a black bear; he is looking at prey. He will chase it, regardless of the size of the black bear". Being larger, the black bear has what it takes to dominate this confrontation. There is no conclusive evidence that shows grizzly bears would be on the offensive against black bears significantly outweighing them.
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Post by 0ldgrizz on Jan 31, 2015 22:48:46 GMT 5
This black bear is taken by surprise, and retreats first chance he got. www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG_OHq6R1AE What you are too biased to admit to, in the polar bear videos, it is the polar bears in retreat. If a grizzly is willing to chase a much larger polar bear, why would you think that he would not chase a slightly larger black bear? Oh yeah... because you are too biased to be honest and accept what you see.
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Post by Runic on Jan 31, 2015 23:09:33 GMT 5
Bottom line... a mature male grizzly will have no fear what-so-ever of a larger black bear. But, if you disagree, show me a black bear standing his ground against even a grizzly she-bear or even a juvenile grizzly.... I'm waiting. They run from larger grizzly. I see no reason why a Black Bear would be scared of a smaller grizzly when there's cases of black bear fighting larger grizzly when they have nothing to lose.
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Post by creature386 on Jan 31, 2015 23:36:26 GMT 5
Wow, so you showed a video with a grizzly and a black bear where the grizzly is clearly larger and the black bear still fights back. It retreated (this is not surprising when looking at the fact that it was clearly smaller than its foe!), but still fought a lot more than the grizzlies in your other videos which have barely shown relevant fighting actions. Your point?
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Post by theropod on Feb 1, 2015 0:28:28 GMT 5
Yeah, I’m soooooo biased, I just realized that because @oldgrizz was so nice to make me aware of it. The grizzly at 00:56- 00:59 was clearly chasing a MUCH LARGER polar bear (its just not visible in the video because as we all know lighter objects seem larger than darker ones…), how could I have possibly overlooked that? After all, there are a whole 3 seconds of footage during which a whole 4 strides were made by that grizzly bear, which was definitely dominating the polar bear as demonstrated by it turning slightly! Actually, polar bears are naturally flight-animals, look how as opposed to the grizzly, it doesn’t even have to move in order to be chased! Definitely the most awesome chase ever. This is even more amazing: 00:49- 00:52That polar bear was so scared of the grizzly, it was (almost) white from fear! Apparently the grizzly prisesurd it, because as soon as it lunged for it, the polar bear took a few steps backwards to dodge it. Besides, why would a polar bear ever go anywhere near a grizzly smaller than itself anyway, we all know grizzlies see everything that moves as prey! I guess it must have been even more surprised than the black bear was of the loud, smelly animal suddenly turning up out of nowhere right next to it! Two totally conclusive accounts, grizzlies scare the shit out of polar bears.
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Post by malikc6 on Feb 1, 2015 3:15:00 GMT 5
A 2 second clip showing a brown bear and a polar bear that seems to be of similar size, if not smaller, several metres apart, neither of them moving more than 2 metres. That proves…what exactly? Those Polar bears are much larger than that brown bear you saw. Edit. According to the people in the video, they state that the polar bears were heavier. They also state that Polar bears tend to avoid grizzly bears.
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Post by malikc6 on Feb 1, 2015 3:25:12 GMT 5
Bottom line... a mature male grizzly will have no fear what-so-ever of a larger black bear. But, if you disagree, show me a black bear standing his ground against even a grizzly she-bear or even a juvenile grizzly.... I'm waiting. They run from larger grizzly. I see no reason why a Black Bear would be scared of a smaller grizzly when there's cases of black bear fighting larger grizzly when they have nothing to lose. Don't they still die?
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Post by malikc6 on Feb 1, 2015 3:29:43 GMT 5
This black bear is taken by surprise, and retreats first chance he got. www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG_OHq6R1AE What you are too biased to admit to, in the polar bear videos, it is the polar bears in retreat. If a grizzly is willing to chase a much larger polar bear, why would you think that he would not chase a slightly larger black bear? Oh yeah... because you are too biased to be honest and accept what you see. In the bear world, doesn't size matter? Sure the black bear by nature is weaker, even at equal weights. But when you say chase, do you mean try to attack it, or intimidation? What if the black bear simply stood it's ground or charged the grizzly bear back? With a 100 lb weight advantage, the brown bear would have quite a fight on it's hands.
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Post by theropod on Feb 1, 2015 3:30:36 GMT 5
vice versa. And still, those interactions, whatever they actually were (I’m not so arrogant as to claim I can judge that), did take place, so they probably aren’t all that afraid of each other, and neither that unevenly matched at similar sizes.
The titles of a youtube videos I do not consider a valid source, and I highly doubt the uploader tracked down the individuals in question to weigh them. Even if it were larger, there is absolutely no way the polar bear was 4 times the weight of the grizzly, as claimed in the video title, so that confirms it.
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Post by malikc6 on Feb 1, 2015 3:31:55 GMT 5
And vice versa. And still, those interactions, whatever they actually were (I’m not so arrogant as to claim I can judge that), did take place, so they probably aren’t all that afraid of each other, and neither that unevenly matched at similar sizes. The titles of a youtube videos I do not consider a valid source, and I highly doubt the uploader tracked down the individuals in question to weigh them. Even if it were larger, there is absolutely no way the polar bear was 4 times the weight of the grizzly, as claimed in the video title, so that confirms it. Not the title of the video. The people within the video claiming that the polar bears are much heavier than the brown bear who is estimated to be about 300 lbs.
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Post by theropod on Feb 1, 2015 3:42:34 GMT 5
Which one do you mean?
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Post by malikc6 on Feb 1, 2015 3:46:54 GMT 5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y4kGrKy9pkThat one. Same as oldgrizz's video, but you can hear the guy saying that the polar bear is heavier than the brown bear. I do wonder how he made that conclusion though. But anyways, oldgrizz said brown bears will chase after heavier rival bears, and if this is true, how do you know it's more out of intimidation then anything else?
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Post by theropod on Feb 1, 2015 4:39:18 GMT 5
I’m afraid I can’t follow the question. Chase after something out of intimidation? If I was intimidated by something, I wouldn’t try to chase it…
Obviously polar bears are typically larger than grizzlies, but this is about the specific two individuals in that scene, which seemed similar in size. Note how the narrator’s guesstimate is not explicitely referring to the polar bear shown in the footage. As I already wrote, saying that specific polar bear was 4 times the size of the grizzly is utter BS, there’s no way it is even twice as large. Now, obviously that scene tells us very little, I have already posted examples involving a much smaller black bear, and a much smaller cougar, both behaving aggressively towards a grizzly. That alone certainly does not mean that this is a predator-prey situation.
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Feb 1, 2015 8:23:57 GMT 5
Bottom line... a mature male grizzly will have no fear what-so-ever of a larger black bear. But, if you disagree, show me a black bear standing his ground against even a grizzly she-bear or even a juvenile grizzly.... I'm waiting. i've read this thread, and i'm still waiting for you to post any sort of evidence for your claims! all you're doing is spouting unfounded statements, without any supplementary data. furthermore, calling others idiotic for disagreeing with you, really isn't a way to debate, mate. why is a black bear with a 100lb weight advantage going to be scared of a grizzly? have grizzlys ever killed a black bear weighing parity? additionally, why is the grizzly going to just go out and attack a larger brown bear "without fear"? have they done this before/ are there accounts of them attacking and killing black bears larger then themselves? if the answer is no, then your basically telling us to take your word for all of what you've stated, which i'm certain the vast majority participating in this thread don't.
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