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Post by theropod on Mar 6, 2020 4:17:44 GMT 5
Hmm somehow I have an easier time buying amphibians going extinct than birds going extinct, at least after seeing birds seemingly do just fine right before the mass extinction. Most birds are small, many are opportunistic, and they are found worldwide and in pretty much every habitat and every conceivable specialization except for megaherbivores (which is good, those would likely be the first thing to go extinct). All fairly good circumstances for surviving future mass extinctions. I recall reading the hypothesis that Enanthiornithes went extinct because they are primarily specialized in arboreal habitats (Field et al. 2018 DOI→ ). Granted, there were some non-enanthiornithine, non-arboreal Cretaceous birds, but most seem to have been relatively short-lived lineages that hadn’t diversified much, not comparable to the diversity of extant birds. Nowadays however, name me a climate or habitat where there are no birds. I think that’s going to be difficult. Which makes whiping every single one of them out pretty difficult, even with a massive extinction. The same, of course, goes for "fish". That is not to say they couldn’t go extinct, given enough time and the wrong circumstances…but at the same time, they invented an animal evolving basically all the same traits as birds independently, all that while being the last surviving Actinopterygian? So there are two scenarios here: Either the mass extinction didn’t wipe out all osteognathostomes at all, and fish evolved flight afterwards, after this niche was vacated by the extinction of birds. This sounds more probable for the evolution of flish themselves (which in that case I could actually see happening), but then it is weird that by 200 Ma, without another major mass extinction, all remaining aquatic osteognathostomes are gone and flish are the last survivors. Groups don’t just entirely change lifestyle like that, especially within such relatively short times. If there were surviving aquatic fish, which then subsequently evolved flight, then there would probably still be early-branching members around by 200 Ma that lack this innovation, just like today there are still non-flying mammals, non-ruminant artiodactyls, and even non-tetrapod sarcopterygians, non-gnathostome vertebrates, non-pterygote insects or non-coleoid cephalopods. There would, at the very least, have had to be another major mass extinction wiping out all these basal forms (like the one that wiped out the non-flying dinosaurs or the one that wiped out the non-underwater-flying sauropterygians). Or the evolution of flish flight predates the mass extinction, and flish as a clade of volant actinopterygians where the only surviving osteognathostomes. This seems to be implied by the show, and would make more sense in terms of fish extinction (that way whatever happened to the fish in the ocean could wipe them out without affecting the flish, though that in itself is ecologically unrealistic as well), but then flish would have had to evolve alongside birds, with birds for some reason going extinct while flish (filling the same niches as birds!) survived. And also, flying fish would have already had to be around in the 100 Ma segment, and essentially been competing successfully with birds, which for some reason isn’t alluded to anywhere in the show, which even goes to great lengths to show birds are still alive and kicking at this point in time (quite unlike mammals, whose extinction I think was handled more realistically by showing them declining gradually, even if that actually happening that soon was a bit funny). Can’t see that happening, certainly not by 100 Ma. I think this is again the "exchange animal"-syndrome. They just try to swap out all the players, whether it makes sense or not. Need something new and cool in a whale niche? Take a bird! Need something in a vulture niche? Take a bat! Need something in a fish niche? Take a paedomorphic crustacean (that by itself I would totally buy, if they had provided us a sensible explanation for all fish going extinct)! Need something in a bird niche? Take a flying fish (even though all other fish are supposed to be miraculously extinct). Need something in a whale niche again? Take a giant squid (I think a giant filter-feeding shark or actinopterygian would have been more likely, but ok). Need something in an elephant niche? Take a tortoise, or later a squid. Maybe if they wanted to try out something totally weird, they should have just set this 500 Ma in the future, then that would be almost as far from us as the Cambrian radiation, and it would be far easier to buy all manner of weird animals and fauna swaps. After all, who would have thought 500 Ma that those puny vertebrates would one day be so successful? Though of course the situation is quite different, diversity today is way higher, way more niches are filled, and I maintain that a given time in the future the fauna should be more familiar-looking than the same time back. Problem is also, 500 Ma the players would also realistically have to be way harder to recognize, which could make this end up looking more like alien planet than TFIW. Their 200 Ma cephalopods still look essentially like modern cephalopods, merely terrestrialized (not even that for the rainbow squid). But what if their cephalopods were as different from modern cephalopods as we are from Myllokunmingia or Pikaia?
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Post by Infinity Blade on Mar 7, 2020 1:50:24 GMT 5
Graveyard Desert (200,000,000 CE)Quick note: remember the previous episode? Well, its ecosystem is tied to the one featured in this episode. Frequent “hypercanes” (enormous hurricanes) in the sea regularly blow organic material over the coastal mountain ranges by powerful winds. This is mostly in the form of plankton, but also surprisingly large numbers of flish that are caught in the storm and swept over the mountains. They die under the scorching desert sun. There are animals in this episode’s desert that live off of the food sources brought over by these hypercanes. Bumblebeetle/grimworm: An adult bumblebeetle. Taken from The Future is Wild wiki->The larval form, called a grimworm. Taken from The Future is Wild wiki->The bumblebeetle is a stupidly specialized beetle. It flies at 35 km/h over vast distances across the desert to find a dead flish that it can smell from 10 km away. It is confronted with a problem: it needs to be able to detect sparsely-distributed food over vast distances when it doesn’t know where it is, and it must find it quickly. It needs to be able to effectively locate food, but it cannot have overly large antennae, because that would compromise how quickly and efficiently it could travel. So what did it do? The bumblebeetle evolved hairs on its front legs that act as extra antennae, which fold inwards to reduce drag during flight. The wing cases are stiff, to increase lift and safe energy during flight. Its journey is started with 40% of its body mass being fat, which is apparently just enough energy to fly nonstop for 24 hours. If a bumblebeetle finds a dead flish, only to discover that it is already occupied by a grimworm (the larval bumblebeetle), then it will immediately leave to find another, unoccupied flish. The adult bumblebeetle is literally nothing more than a means of transport for its offspring; it lacks mouthparts and a digestive system, and only lives in this form for about a day. Sometimes fights break out between two bumblebeetles for a flish carcass. And despite all the aforementioned adaptations, most bumblebeetles don’t successfully find a flish carcass; they just run out of energy and die. But when an adult bumblebeetle successfully finds a vacant flish carcass, it lands on it while the larval grimworms it carries burst out of its dying body to feed on the flish. They grow quickly (doubling in size in 48 hours) and are equipped with three sets of slicing and grinding jaws (they can actually burrow tunnels into the flesh of the flish). The grimworms actually reproduce while they’re in the larval form, and the carcass then becomes occupied by many grimworms. The females stay, while the males find other carcasses to mate with the females there. Before pupating, the strongest female grimworm will eat all the others, and after pupating, she emerges as an adult, flying away to start the cycle all over again. I guess the general concept of what it is is plausible. I mean, there are insects with no mouths, and while I’m not insect expert, I don’t see one also lacking a digestive system to be completely out there, especially since the adult bumblebeetle literally only exists for a day to find a carcass and transport its offspring. It sounds like it has a very specialized lifestyle, though. I wonder if there are animals other than flish that get swept over the mountains for the grimworms to feed off of. Or if the carcasses of other native fauna (e.g. the desert hoppers) are also used. If so, the bumblebeetle/grimworm are passable, at least in my humble opinion. Final verdict: plausible. Desert hopper: Taken from this blog->A gastropod. That hops. On land. ~30 cm tall and weigh 2 kg. Its hopping is a means of more efficiently moving across the desert, and to keep off the hot desert sand. It no longer leaves a slime trail, and in fact retains moisture with horny, interlocking scales. It gets all its moisture from the plants that it eats. Desert hoppers use their radula (a raspy tongue) to cut a hole into the hard outer cuticle of a plant to get to soft watery parts inside of it. They seem to be active throughout the night and the day. I’ve seen a couple redesigns of the desert hopper online ( 1, 2). Both still hop, but seem to use a modified operculum to hop (which I guess makes sense if they want to avoid the hot desert sand). One looks more like a modern snail. The other has a much more svelte, less bulky shell than the one seen in the show, which I think makes sense given that this is a hopping animal. But the question is, how contingent is this creature on the extinction of tetrapods? I feel like the answer is very, so I wonder if I should deem it implausible based off that alone. Final verdict: undecided (maybe implausible). Deathbottle: Taken from Pinterest->. Click here-> to see the reproductive trap. And here-> just to see it about to stab a desert hopper because why not? This desert’s soil is sterile. So what’s a plant to do? Well, lots of things, I’m sure. But the deathbottle has become carnivorous. The roots(?) are connected to an underground pit that is filled with poisonous spines. On the surface, this pit is covered by a soft membranous lid that is then covered by sand (that must have blown onto it). When a desert hopper lands on the trap, the lid gives in to the snail’s weight, and the gastropod is trapped inside. It wriggles and struggles, but is quickly impaled by the poisonous spines. After it is killed, the desert hopper is digested by the deathbottle. This method of trapping and killing evolved because the deathbottle kills and eats larger prey than the ones living today, and so must dispatch it quickly before the trap is damaged. The lid is regrown and then recovered by sand. This plant is also confronted by a reproductive problem. So it has evolved a flower that looks and smells like a dead flish, with what even looks like an open wound. This fools bumblebeetles, which crawl into the “open wound” of the flower. What this actually leads the bumblebeetle to, however, is another trap. This trap doesn’t kill the bumblebeetle, but is instead filled with sticky seeds that get stuck on the insect as it bumps around trying to escape. But there is a spot inside the seed trap that is more lightly colored; this is, in fact, a catapult. When the bumblebeetle lands on that spot, the plant catapults the bumblebeetle out. Not only can seeds be dispersed over long distances this way, but they can also be dispersed when the bumblebeetle reaches an actual flish carcass, which fertilize the poor soil. I’m currently taking plant biology at my college, and having seen the various crazy ways in which plants trick their pollinators and whatnot, I can honestly buy the reproductive method of the deathbottle (the only thing that confuses me is the catapult; how, exactly, does that work?). But I’m left with a question regarding the killing trap: what if too much sand is blown onto it, and the lid collapses? How would the deathbottle dispose of the mass of sand that’s now inside its trap? Final verdict: undecided (intermediate?).
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Post by creature386 on Mar 7, 2020 12:29:51 GMT 5
Zero episodes left until the megasquid episode. The finale is always the point of maximum tension.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Mar 9, 2020 5:42:39 GMT 5
Tentacled Forest (200,000,000 CE)Forest flish: Taken from the Speculative Evolution wiki-> (another one, it seems) Forest species of flish. The ones shown in this episode are only ~10 cm long. Something I learned from this episode is that their wings beat 30 times per second, making them fast and maneuverable flyers. Their pelvic fins have evolved into hooks to allow them to roost upside down on branches. When the day ends (so I guess they’re diurnal?), they return to their branches to roost. The Living Book says that they make songs, but it’s unlike bird songs. Rather, it’s more like the songs of crickets, stroking the teeth on their vestigial gill arches together. However, in the documentary, I still hear them making what sound like bird-esque vocalizations. I’ve previously deemed ocean flish extremely implausible and currently I still stand by my statement. Final verdict: extremely implausible. Slithersucker: Taken from the speculative evolution wiki-> (the one I usually get my images from) An orange slime mold that oozes and dangles off of tree branches, letting forest flish fly into itself so that it gets tangled up. It then secretes a digestive juice that slowly dissolves the trapped flish. It also slowly takes the form of a fruit. The reason for this is so that it can fool megasquids into consuming them. Of course, the collection of cells that is the slithersucker doesn’t actually want to be eaten and digested. Some cells go to the brain and alter the behavior of the megasquid, while others go to the air pouch that the squid uses to vocalize. I think this is its means of getting transported throughout the forest. I want to say this sounds like some completely stupid, sci-fi concept, but given how the documentary provides us with footage of slime molds moving and all other stuff (albeit I’m pretty sure at increased speed) and providing us with an example of animal hijacking, I’m going to say this is probably more on the plausible side. Maybe, I’m not 100% sure. Take a good look readers: this is the last plausible organism from the show you’ll ever see, assuming my assessment here is correct and the last plausible organism wasn't from a past episode. Ah but then again, there are only two left. And now, ladies and gentlemen, the moment you've all been waiting for. We've saved the best for last. Put your hands together for the incomparable terrestrial squids!...Wrong show? Wrong show. Megasquid: Taken from the speculative evolution wiki->You know this one, folks. The mollusk, the myth, the legend. An 8 tonne terrestrial squid. That easily topples over trees (and I mean easily, judging from the show). That walks on eight legs (The Living Book, by the way, says six legs, but the original show explicitly says that the megasquid moves on eight legs and clearly demonstrates it in their CGI schematics of the thing). This presents the megasquid with the issue of moving without tripping over. To do this, it needs to keep some legs on the ground at any given time. It moves the front and the back leg on one side and the two middle legs on the other (this seems to constrain it into moving at very slow speeds). It has no bones to bear its weight, so it’s supported completely by muscle. Each leg has a network of circular and vertical muscles, which are apparently held by the horny bands around its legs (derived from the suckers). When the squid puts more weight on a given leg, the circular muscles contract and hold the leg’s shape. Because muscle is incompressible, the megasquid can (supposedly) bear its weight with muscle alone (though, apparently the 2003 companion book says that cartilage helps too). To communicate in the dense, cloudy forest, the megasquid uses sound. As it breathes through its siphon, it uses the movement of air as it breathes to vocalize. Air passes past elastic membranes, causing them to vibrate and make noise (like vocal cords). It even has a green, expandable pouch on its “forehead” to amplify its noises. The megasquid has incorporated plant matter into its diet, and uses two long tentacles like elephant trunks to grab food and bring it to its feeding apparatus. It will eat lichen capsules from the lichen trees that now dominate the forest, but it still eats meat. I think if there’s one creature from this program that makes us wonder “What was this show thinking?” (with all due respect to them), it’s this one. The show’s explanation for the megasquid getting by without bones? No…no, just no. Terrestrial animals without a skeleton for support exist…but they’re all small. The square cube law dictates that as an animal increases in size, its muscles increase in volume cubically, but in cross section (and therefore strength) only quadratically. A small terrestrial say, snail will not have a problem supporting its weight on land. An 8 tonne squid with no skeleton will have muscle strength far behind their volume. Muscle and cartilage are just not rigid enough to provide an effective support for the megasquid. Muscle being non-compressible doesn’t sound like a sufficient explanation; if that property alone would allow animals to be able to support their weight with no skeleton, why evolve a skeleton at all? Final verdict: extremely implausible. Squibbon: Taken from the Speculative Evolution wiki->A squid taking the gibbon niche (hence the name). This arboreal cephalopod brachiates through the tree branches with great speed and agility. To see where it’s going, its eyes are on stalks that can move around. Young squibbons can fall prey to megasquids. To fight back against this gigantic potential predator, squibbons will pelt spore pods at the megasquid, and will use this as a distraction in order to rescue a youngster still caught in its grasp. Squibbons are the most intelligent animals that have evolved since the Anthropocene. As Christian Rodska closes off the series, he asks if a new civilization could perchance emerge from the squibbons. So, I’ve already given my stance on terrestrial squids above, which I think would already make this extremely implausible. But there was another point I’ve seen brought up: gibbons today sometimes get skeletal fractures from falling off of branches. Obviously the squibbon has no bones (which supposedly makes it better at climbing through trees than modern gibbons), but by that same token, if a squibbon were to fall from a substantial height, it wouldn’t even have a hard skeleton that could at least provide some protection to the internal organs upon impacting the ground. [1] Lastly, I know it’s quite silly to compare tetrapods with cephalopods, but modern brachiating tetrapods need long, well-developed clavicles to support the muscles for brachiation. [2] I don’t know if this is a problem for cephalopods or not, but I feel like muscle arrangement, and whether or not a squid could develop the right one for brachiation, is something that should be considered. I guess I could pass the intelligence, but…I’ve said enough, I’ll just leave you to your thoughts on the whole “possibly starting a new civilization” part. Final verdict: extremely implausible. And...that's all folks! I hope I didn't disappoint you with the squids creature. [1] www.sivatherium.narod.ru/futur2en.htm[2] books.google.com/books?id=FPgWDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA65&dq=clavicle+brachiation&hl=en&ppis=_c&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwigvO-Qk4zoAhUvgnIEHbs2ATcQ6AEwAnoECAMQAg#v=onepage&q=clavicle%20brachiation&f=false
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Post by creature386 on Mar 10, 2020 21:46:58 GMT 5
I promised I'd give a response and here it is.
First of all, you did not disappoint with the squids at all. The part with Squidward was masterful. I'll never be able to look at the megasquid again without seeing the obvious similarities. I had no idea how the slime would rate before reading this. At least it can reign safely on its throne as the most WTF-worthy plausible creature in the entire series. The fact that you called it a "stupid sci-fi concept" got me thinking.
James Cameron's Avatar has proven that alien designs that are pure spec evo porn (excerpt for the Na'vi, of course) could make it into a mainstream movie blockbuster of the highest order. And you can say whatever you want about TFIW's creatures, but they are in a whole different league than the average sci-fi creature (which is typically either a human stand-in or a horror movie monster). So, wouldn't it be cool to have TFIW-like creatures in a time travel sci-fi show like Primeval? I mean, sure, we have a TFIW cartoon, but that's not quite the same. The bar for realism would be far lower than for a documentary while the coolness factor would still be there. Just a thought that popped into my head.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Mar 10, 2020 23:10:02 GMT 5
I'd be all for that. Interestingly enough, R. McNeill Alexander (a renowned biomechanist) said he did calculations on how much mass a terrestrial animal without a skeleton could bear. His first calculations got 1 tonne, but apparently when he factored in some mollusk muscles being able to exert extremely high stresses, that got him the 8 tonne megasquid. www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/jun/28/highereducation.scienceNo, this doesn't change my ranking for the megasquid, because I don't even know what he did for the calculations (we might not ever know, considering he has since passed away). Just for anyone interested.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Sept 30, 2023 7:23:07 GMT 5
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Post by theropod on Sept 30, 2023 18:28:47 GMT 5
Interesting indeed. This sort of reminds me of how the conditions on the last Pangea seemingly limited dinosaur dispersal during the early part of the Late Triassic.
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Post by Exalt on Sept 30, 2023 21:11:19 GMT 5
I'm obviously more concerned about the actual effects of such a thing, but it annoys me that both this and tfiw itself don't know how to name supercontinents anything other than Pangaea.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Sept 30, 2023 21:19:36 GMT 5
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