Ussuri Brown Bear vs Siberian Tiger

[kodiak]

So lets continue: 

# 1) know that most of your accounts and "statistics" have been exposed by me already. The people will see why bears have won more:

www.tapatalk.com/groups/wildanimalwarfare/tiger-superiority-over-bears-accounts-exposed-t142.html

#2) yeah, you have some accounts of tigers killing polar bears in captivity, why do you think that is? Because its a well known GENERAL FACT that polar bears get overheated, sick, weak, and demented in captivity, anyone with half a brain knows this....

Polar bears in captivity get sick and demented



"In an ideal world there would be no polar bears in zoos, for if ever there is an animal that doesn’t belong in a zoo it’s the polar bear."

www.bearconservation.org.uk/polar-bears-in-zoos/

So if you like tigers killing overheated, sick, weak, and demented polar bears, awesome for you. 

#3) this takes us to #3, why do you think that you have accounts of tigers killing polar bears but only 1 or 2 accounts of tigers killing BROWN bears in captivity?? Maybe because the polar bears were sick and weak as i just showed? Did you ever think about that? Why do you think they are called "POLAR" bears? Because they live in the freezing artic where it goes down to -60 to -70, no zoo or circus can even match that temperature huh? And even though Amur tigers live in the cold also, it goes down to -20 to -30, that is not even close as the freezing artic which goes down to -70. So tigers, brown bears, or lions dont have that problem in captivity, polar bears do.

[kodiak]

So, now we go to CAPTIVITY. Captive fights are the best way to see a real, fair face to face fight, locked in a cage, nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, until death. So why have bears absolutely dominated tigers in captive fights? Well its real simple ladies and gentleman, its because in captivity, the tiger loses its ambush advantage and now its face to face..here, more than 20 newsapaper and book accounts of bears destroying tigers in captive fights..also, bears killing tigers in the wild.

domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/512/bears-defeat-tigers-accounts

 Not but not least: lets take a look at the final statistics. 

WILD: TIGERS-22, BEARS-12.
CAPTIVITY: BEARS-20, TIGERS-AROUND 5

Final score: 

Bears-32, Tigers 27

[tijkil]

LMAO.

[mountainlord]

OK Kodiak, let me dismantle your nonsense again, like I always do. First of all, this is a thread about SIBERIAN TIGER VS USSURI BROWN BEAR, so why are you bringing up old captive accounts for?? Why are you talking about Polar bear vs tiger fights?? Huh?....

You haven't exposed anything, and you know it. Tigers have killed WAY MORE than just 22 Brown bears in fights in the wild. Not a single fight statistic recorded by Russian biologists or hunters favour the Brown bear, not one. Thats clear dominance from the tiger over the Brown bear, period.

Now here's the fight statistics that expose and debunk all your lies.....

Note, these fight statistics are documented by renowned Russian authorities/biologists. Far more credible accounts than the old, unreliable CAPTIVE accounts that Kodiak spams out of desperation.

Russian biologist states that - AS A RULE - the tiger defeats the Brown bear in a fight.

Translation:

Timofei Bazhenov - "I'm often asked, if the tiger meets the brown bear in the taiga, who will win then? As a rule, the tiger wins. But it occurs a Brown bear may win if it is big."



A Russian authority outright states that as a rule (In most cases) the tiger will defeat a Brown bear in a fight. He states that a Brown bear may have a chance of winning if it is a large bear, but thats it. But in general, the tiger is superior and wins most fights.

This is very, very conclusive evidence in favour of the tiger.

44 head-on fights between tigers and Brown bears

It is known that out of 44 cases of fights between tigers and brown bears - 50% ended with the death of the bears, 27% in the death of the tiger:



translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&ei=yhlkSsf9KeOgjAf4r7zvDw&hl=en&nv=1&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwcs%2Brussia%2Btiger%2Bmonograph%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&u=https://russia.wcs.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/Download.aspx%3FEntryId%3D3252%26PortalId%3D32%26DownloadMethod%3Dattachment&xid=17259

This source is referring to those 44 fights between tigers and Brown bears: - 22 Brown bears killed by tigers, and only 12 tigers killed by Brown bears:



www.bearbiology.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/IBN_High_November_2011.pdf

Tigers won and dominated in fights, 22 - 12 over kill disputes.

Thats already 22 Brown bears slaughtered by tigers in face-to-face fights. Now here's many more additional accounts!...

From Russian biologist/authority - Rukovsky - "In The Footsteps of Forest Animals."

Rukovsky interviewed 42 local Russian hunters about tigers vs brown bears, and here's what they had to say....

"To clarify the relationship between these two predators, I interviewed 42 local hunters, old-timers Primorsky Krai. Of these, 7 people responded that the tiger specifically hunts for a bear; one man said that the bear walks in the footsteps of a tiger, collecting the remnants of its food; ( Scavenging left-overs ) 14 described the tiger-bear fights without a tragic outcome; 2 remembered when a bear strangled a tiger; 11 claimed that the tiger killed the bear, and, finally, 2 hunters assured that the bear leaves the grounds where the tiger appeared."

"Fights between large tigers and brown bears occur only in the hungry years, unfavorable for the bear in relation to food, when the connecting rods collide with tigers near the preyed animals. And only in rare cases can a tiger become a victim."

www.piterhunt.ru/Library/rukovskiy/po_sledam_lesnih_zverey/9.htm

First-hand testimonies from experienced hunters prove that tigers win far more fights against Brown bears than vice versa. Only two hunters knew of a case where a Brown bear killed a tiger, whereas ELEVEN hunters reported a case of a tiger killing a Brown bear in a fight. Rukovsky stated that in fights between tigers and Brown bears, only in RARE cases the tiger loses.

Tigers completely dominated the Brown bears - 11 - 2 in fights.

This is also backed up by this journal, which documents all the recorded fights between tigers and Brown bears in the wild, from Russian biologists, naturalists, hunters. locals etc....

"S.P. Kucherenko notes that the average tiger is always stronger than the average bear"

"But indeed from the scientific literature it follows that the tiger not only is NOT inferior to the bear, but even more frequently it leaves as conqueror"

shish02.livejournal.com/7269.html?thread=55909

More references from Russian authority S.P Kucherenko, which proves the tigers supremacy over the Brown bear:

"Of the animals, only a large brown bear can overpower him, but young, not yet strong tigers or cubs are more likely to be victims. An adult male tiger will not be taken even by a large bear. On the contrary, it was necessary to meet large bears killed and eaten by the tiger. The average tiger is always stronger than the average bear. Of the 17 reliable cases I know of tiger fights with a brown bear in Sikhote Alin between 1965-1976, eight animals dispersed, six times the tiger killed the bear and three defeated a bear."

Tiger - S.P. Kucherenko 1985

Out of 17 reliably recorded fights between tigers and Brown bears, not a single tiger was killed. Six Brown bears were killed and three other bears were defeated by the tiger.

The tiger completely dominated the fights - 9 - 0. With not a single tiger casualty!

"Tiger and Brown bear contractions are quite common. A tiger in the prime of life always crushes a bear, but not yet strong tigresses die from it. Of the 44 reliably recorded fights, the initiative in the attack belonged to a bear at thirteen, a tiger at nine (at 22 the instigator’s cases could not be determined); fourteen bears and eight tigers were killed; in 22 cases, the fighters broke up and received wounds of varying degrees."

Amur tiger - S.P. Kucherenko 1994

Tigers won 14 - 8 in fights

From one of the leading Amur tiger biologists - John Goodrich

In an interview to the BBC Wildlife Magazine, he stated that in his work, he's found many Brown bears that were killed by tigers in fights:



books.google.co.uk/books?id=GJhFAQAAIAAJ&q=in+my+work+i+have+found+many+bears+killed+by+tigers&dq=in+my+work+i+have+found+many+bears+killed+by+tigers&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjvmqvD-5_iAhXZTxUIHbQgCksQ6AEIKjAA

Note - He states that from the tracks, he could tell the battle was impressive. This clearly indicates that these were fights, and not ambushes where the bears were quickly dispatched. It also proves that Brown bears are killed quite often by tigers in face-to-face fights.

So thats many Brown bears killed by tigers in fights.

Here's by far one of the best accounts regarding Amur tigers vs Brown bears, from John Vaillant:

John Vaillant actually went to the Russian far east and interviewed many top authorities regarding tigers and bears, from renowned biologists (Dale Miquelle, J.Goodrich included) as well as other Russian biologists, hunters, natives, naturalists, locals, forest rangers etc..and they all told him that the tiger dominates the Brown bear and regularly attacks, kills and eats them. He was even told that tigers kill bears solely on principle, and will pick fights with Brown bears and tear them apart.

"This is a book about Russians and their tigers, and much of the information in it comes from Russian sources, including many interviews."

books.google.co.uk/books?id=WGvVohmSYXcC&pg=PT305&lpg=PT305&dq=dale+miquelle+on+john+vaillants+book&source=bl&ots=mHvGgqTB-d&sig=CaRAJvAaHADHkFi96um7djScTBQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwip5_jywdvcAhUDCxoKHdmsARAQ6AEINDAC#v=onepage&q=dale%20miquelle%20on%20john%20vaillants%20book&f=false

Tigers attack, kill and eat both Brown bears and Black bears on a regular basis. Russian Brown bears can reach 1000lbs in weight, in spite of this, they've  been known to flee at the sight of a tiger. Tigers will pick fights with Brown bears - prosecute the battles - and tear the bears apart, limb from limb!..



Male tigers are vicious, vindictive and vengeful beasts, and will even kill bears solely on principle! ( Based on the observations of hunters and biologists )



books.google.co.uk/books?dq=lev+kaplanov+very+large+brown+bear&hl=en&id=WGvVohmSYXcC&lpg=PT142&ots=mHuKcoWv-l&pg=PT142&sa=X&sig=cy1vjRvW9TKntaVAOgKAUvmPp6A&source=bl&ved=0ahUKEwjd8dHA3qDbAhUMKsAKHSARDqAQ6AEIQjAI#v=onepage&q=lev%20kaplanov%20very%20large%20brown%20bear&f=false

Here's a video of John Vaillant talking about the tigers dominance over the Russian grizzly bear. He's asked about tigers vs big Russian bears/Grizzly bears, and he states the following - "The tiger has a inborn sense of total dominance over its domain. Russian brown bears are the equivalent of our Grizzly, the tiger attacks, kills and eats them on regular basis."

Go to the 11:29 mark:

Everything Vaillant stated in his book was based off first-hand authentic accounts and testimonies from all the TOP AUTHORITIES on this subject. Vaillant was also told that tigers will even pick fights with Brown bears and tear the bears apart, limb from limb to the point where the bears appendages are scattered across the battle ground! This shows clear dominance from the tiger, period.

Here's some more additional accounts of tigers killing Brown bears in fights:

Tiger killed a Brown bear after a 20-minute battle - Bears fled from tigers when tigers returned to their kills:



translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&ei=yhlkSsf9KeOgjAf4r7zvDw&hl=en&nv=1&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwcs%2Brussia%2Btiger%2Bmonograph%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&u=https://russia.wcs.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/Download.aspx%3FEntryId%3D3252%26PortalId%3D32%26DownloadMethod%3Dattachment&xid=17259

The Amur Tiger - by Yury Dunishenko and Alexander Kulikov

Tiger kills a large Brown bear in a fight

"We heard one story about how a large brown bear having taken on a wild boar and covered it with scat and brushwood to make some “stewed boar, bear style,” suddenly got paid a visit by a hungry tiger. Oh how much blood got shed! The owner of the kill died from terrible wounds."

www.wf.ru/tiger/book/The%20Amur%20Tiger.pdf

Account from the great Russian traveler “N.M. Przhevalsky”, from his book - Travels in Ussuri region

Tiger kills a Bear in a fight

“The tiger also does not live in a special friendship with the bear, and the hunters told me that once they found a place where two of these animals fought. Both of them clutched near the top of the mountain and rolled down, leaving a wide trail over the grass and bushes, there was no doubt that it was the tiger and the bear that fought. So these animals rolled a few hundred steps. Finally, the tiger crushed the bear."

az.lib.ru/p/przhewalxskij_n_m/text_0050.shtml

Tiger kills Brown bear in a fight

Russian text book scan - reporting a fight between a tiger and a brown bear, in which the tiger killed the bear.

A hunter from Vladivostok saw crows circling in the forest. He followed them and found a place where a tiger and a bear had fought, and he found the body of the bear that was killed by the tiger. The tiger had gone before he arrived on the scene:

Undisputable proof from biologists and experts shows that the tiger dominates the brown bear in head-on battles, and is the usual winner in a fight to the death.

There's not a single fight statistic showing Brown bears having the upper-hand over tigers, not one. That speaks volumes to the tigers supremacy over the Brown bear. Any unbiased and neutral observer would clearly see the tigers blatant dominance and superiority in a fight against a Brown bear. Russian authorities, undisputed experts, accounts, statistics and expert testimonies all clearly prove and confirm the tiger is superior and is the general winner in a fight to the death.

And this is exactly why the Amur tiger is widely regarded by the Russians and indigenous peoples, as the undisputed LORD AND MASTER of the Ussuri taiga.

You see kodiak, thats WAY MORE than just 22 Brown bears killed in fights against tigers. All the statistics documented and reported by Russian authorities CONSISTENTLY show one thing....and that is the tiger is the usual winner in a fight against a Brown bear, fact.

I even posted a VIDEO of an actual Russian biologist stating it too. What more blatant proof do you want??

All you can desperately rely on and spam is unreliable CAPTIVE accounts. Thats all you got. Its what happens in the wild, is what truly counts, period. 

[mountainlord]

Also, on that thread you made on Starfox's forum. Again, like always, you blatantly lied about the sources and twisted them.

Nowhere in those 44 fights does it state there were "ambushes" YOU LIAR. They were clearly stated to be "CLASHES". Even head-on collisions. They were head-on fights, you just can't take it. So you constantly make up stuff and spew lies.

And that video of the Russian biologist - the man clearly stated that "If the tiger MEETS, not ambushes, but MEETS the brown bear in the taiga, who wins? Any pea-brained idiot would easily be able to see that the man is very clearly talking about a FIGHT. Not an ambush. You just clearly put your own MADE-UP spin on that and just twisted the mans words. Its ridiculous.

You never debunked anything, whatsoever. It was a sad attempt. In fact, you only showed how desperate you've become, by all the bold-faced LIES that you constantly spew over and over again.

[kodiak]

Ok so lets start debunking this guy a little.
 Buddy you already posted all that in page 5 or 6 of this thread, you dont get tired of posting the same old crap? Lmao. Dont you see that you are basically the only tiger fan left arguing that a tiger would defeat a bear with a weight advantage? Why dont you focus on posting pictures of tigers, and tiger evolution, or tiger subspecies instead of posting the same old crap that obviously no one cares about? You see, even after you post all that, what was Cooper's answer? He still thinks adult male brown bears would win more, why does he think that?? How about Peter?? Why does he think adult male brown bears dominate the heavyweight division?? How about Amur tiger? Because they are smart tiger fans, not a fanboy like you. I dont even know why am wasting my time here, the debate is clearly over, people believe me, not you, even the smartest TIGER fans. So lets start.....

[kodiak]

So like PAUL COOPER said, you are the king of cherry picking anything that favours the tiger, but ignore absolutely everything that favours bears, and there is a whole lot on the bear's side and you know it. First of all, you obviously didnt learn crap from what Peter told you when he banned you, you should learn a little because this here is exactly what you do:

PETER

HOW MISUSE INFORMATION - LESSON 1

a - You like a particular species and consider it capable of overcoming large brown bears. 
a - You start reading and find something you like on tigers and bears. Serious literature and percentages, if possible.
b - You use the info to state that 'tigers' often best 'bears' in a fight.
c - You add a few decent oneliners you found in articles underlining the conclusions you got to in -b-.
d - You add a few pictures underlining the points you made in -b-.
e - You then enter the department of adult males and state the conclusions in -b- hold.
f -  You add a few spices (scans of popular books will do) in order to finish a delightful salad. 
g - You then offer it to someone you need to get on your side.
h - When he still has a few doubts, you add a lecture of a man who wrote a well-praised book he liked.  

THE FLIPSIDE OF PREFERENCE

Most posters interested in a specific animal are driven by preference. Nothing wrong with that, but you got to avoid the familiar pitfalls when you decide to go public. The thing to remember is that you do preference at home. Outside, you got to deal with reality. Reality and preference don't mix. When you opt for preference, stay at home. When you go public, you have to adjust many fixed ideas just about every day. When they look back on their life, most people considered 'in the know' by many say they 'know' next to nothing about the things they did. Ever wondered why that is? 

wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-edge-of-extinction-a-the-tiger-panthera-tigris?pid=57298#pid57298  

Here once again, Peter banning you from Wildfact for posting OUTRIGHT MISINFORMATION



ITS A FACT YOU USED OUR FORUM TO MISIMFORM THE PUBLIC, NOT HAPPENING"

TIGER PREDATION THREAD

Yesterday, you posted a picture of a bear " ... killed and partly consumed by a tiger ..." in the Russian Far East in the thread 'Tiger Predation'. When I told you the bear had been killed by another bear, you demanded convincing evidence. 

A new member ignoring good advice and demanding undisputed evidence from one of the co-owners? Right. Here's the response. 

I demand you read forum rules before posting. I demand you check your sources before posting. This is not a game, but a public forum offering information about an unseen world rapidly disappearing right in front of our eyes. I don't want you to post anything that fits your opinion. I want you to post good (reliable) information. What we don't want is misinformation. It's a fact you used our forum to misinform the general public. Not happening.

THIS THREAD

In my response to your post on tigers and wild boars, I invited you to post info on tigers and bears, provided it was new information. It is about the last part of the sentence. To be more concrete: everything you offered, was posted some time ago. You said you knew about this thread. I assumed you read all pages. Apparently, you did not.

In contrast to your post in the thread 'Tiger Predation' (outright misinformation), your post on tigers and bears in the thread 'On the Edge of Extinction - Part A - The Tiger (Panthera tigris)'  will not be deleted. There are two reasons.

wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-edge-of-extinction-a-the-tiger-panthera-tigris?page=114

Damn,.what a credible poster ladies and gentleman, lmao!!

[kodiak]

Ok so now that i have destroyed this guy credibility i can go on....

Am i correct in thinking that you still believe that Amur tigers actually hunt adult male brown bears?? Because if you do, you would probably be the ONLY tiger fan that thinks that in all major forums, lets leave the youtube fanboys out. So, how many accounts exists of Amur tigers killing adult male brown bears? 3 or 4 documented cases in history correct? Cases that are not even confirmed as the most of the scientific community did not accept them. So EVEN IF those 3 or 4 cases were confirmed (which are not), it would only be 3 or 4 cases in the last 200 years, basically zero, lmao. Here buddy: i will let the SMARTEST tiger fan talk:

VERY INTERESTING POST FROM PETER IN AVA FROM BACK IN 2013. HE TALKS ABOUT HOW THE 2 ADULT MALE TIGERS KILLED BY BROWN BEARS ARE CONFIRMED, BUT THE 3 ADULT MALE BROWN BEARS KILLED BY TIGERS ARE NOT CONFIRMED.



redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_157231314737211&key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&libId=k2b6nduj0102ylrr000MA4qixlk35&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthread%2F602%2Fpeter-most-respected-knowledgeable-tiger%3Fpage%3D2&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tapatalk.com%2Fgroups%2Fanimalsversesanimals%2Fmale-brown-bears-are-not-out-of-of-the-predatory-r-t1991-s750.html%23p93766&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthread%2F602%2Fpeter-most-respected-knowledgeable-tiger&title=PETER%2C%20THE%20MOST%20RESPECTED%20AND%20KNOWLEDGEABLE%20TIGER%20FAN%20%7C%20Domain%20Of%20The%20Bears&txt=www.tapatalk.com%2Fgroups%2Fanimalsversesanimals%2Fmale-brown-bears-are-not-out-of-of-the-predatory-r-t1991-s750.html%23p93766

[smedz]

kodiak

We get it dude, you love and support peter on this. So can you please take it easy before something bad happens?

[kodiak]

Of course i love that guy Smedz. The most respected and most knowledgeable TIGER fan has won the debate for the bear fans. Read his posts clearly. Of course ML hates him because Peter debunks absolutely everything he posts.Peter has a PHD and is a researcher.

[kodiak]

Ok so aside from only having 3 unconfirmed documented cases in history. Lets see how Amur tigers totally avoid adult male brown bears....

RUSSIAN BIOLOGIST ALEXANDER BATALOV SAYS TIGERS DONT WANT ANY CONFLICT AND SIMPLY TRY TO AVOID LARGE BEARS.



programmes.putin.kremlin.ru/en/tiger/news/25556

SOCIAL ORGANIZATION OF THE NORTHERN TUNGUS BY SERGEI MIKHAILOVICH SHIROKOGOROV- RUSSIAN ANTHROPOLOGIST

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._M._Shirokogoroff

"IF A TIGER OCCUPIES A CERTAIN SMALL VALLEY, NO BEAR OR NO MAN MAY COME TO DISTURB IT” “NEITHER DOES THE TIGER GO TO THE VALLEYS OCCUPIED BY THE LARGE BEAR”



"THE PLACES BELONGING TO THE BEAR MAY EASILY BE RECOGNIZED BY MAN, BY THE TIGER, OR BY OTHER BEARS”



books.google.pl/books?ei=i7KfUtWXGMSVhQfx4YCQCg&hl=pl&id=_7wmAQAAMAAJ&dq=the+bear+slowly,but+surely+conquers+the+tiger&q=tiger

MORE FROM SHIROKOGOROV:

IF THE TIGER’S FIRST ATTACK SUCCEEDS AND THE BEAR FALLS DOWN, THE TIGER MASTERS HIS FOE AND KILLS HIM, IF NOT, THE BEAR SLOWLY BUT SURELY, CONQUERS THE TIGER AND KILLS IT.



ACCORDING TO PIKUNOV (RUSSIAN  BIOLOGIST) , LARGE MALE BROWN BEARS ARE DEFINITELY NOT ON THE MENU




Post # 1711

redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_157007702614511&key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&libId=k1a7bo1i0102ylrr000MA5ageh9tv&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthread%2F602%2Fpeter-most-respected-knowledgeable-tiger%3Fpage%3D1&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwildfact.com%2Fforum%2Ftopic-on-the-edge-of-extinction-a-the-tiger-panthera-tigris%26highlight%3DOn%2Bthe%2Bedge%2Bof%2Bextinction&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthreads%2Frecent%3Fpage%3D3&title=PETER%2C%20THE%20MOST%20RESPECTED%20AND%20KNOWLEDGEABLE%20TIGER%20FAN%20%7C%20Domain%20Of%20The%20Bears&txt=wildfact.com%2Fforum%2Ftopic-on-the-edge-of-extinction-a-the-tiger-panthera-tigris%26amp%3Bhighlight%3DOn%2Bthe%2Bedge%2Bof%2Bextinction

Linda Kerley stated that "tigers hunt up to the largest and healthiest FEMALE brown bears"

LADIES AND GENTLEMAN, THE ADULT MALES AVOID EACH OTHER AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, THEY TOLERATE EACH OTHER, NO ONE DOMINATES.

[kodiak]

You see Mountain Lord, those 44 fights, where the tiger won 22 fights, consists mostly of adult male tigers killing subadult and some adult female brown bears, not one adult male brown bear, at least not confirmed as Peter said. You have accounts, mostly "ambush hunts" while i have alot more captive fights, which are mostly head on. See the difference buddy?  

 Now lets take a look at the morphology and see who is superior physically...

VSEVOLOD SYSOEV

“THE LARGE USSURI VARIETY DOES NOT FLINCH EVEN BEFORE A TIGER. IT IS STRONGER AND MORE ENDURING THAN THE LATTER”




books.google.com/books?id=fl0mAQAAMAAJ&q=Shatun+bears+hunt+tigers&dq=Shatun+bears+hunt+tigers&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj00MH6jozgAhWpnOAKHcwSCBsQ6AEINDAD

NO ANIMAL OF ITS SIZE HAS STRENGTH COMPARABLE TO THAT OF A GRIZZY BEAR”



HUNTER AND NATURALIST THEODORE ROOSEVELT: “THE GRIZZLY IS GREATLY SUPERIOR IN BULK AND MUSCULAR POWER TO EITHER OF THE GREAT CATS”



BEARS HAVE LARGER DELTOID/PECTORAL MUSCLES THAN BIG CATS

www.academia.edu/245432/How_to_build_a_mammalian_superpredator

THE DELTOID CREST IS BETTER DEVELOPED IN PLANTIGRADES THAN DIGITIGRADES, IT IS PARTICULARLY EXTENDED IN URSIDS, WHEREAS IT IS SMALL IN CANIDS, HYAENIDS, AND FELIDS


books.google.com.au/books?id=4s9OAQAAIAAJ&q=THE+DELTOID+CREST+IS+BETTER+DEVELOPED+IN+PLANTIGRADES+THAN+DIGITIGRADES,+IT+IS+PARTICULARLY+EXTENDED+IN+URSIDS,+WHEREAS+IT+IS+SMALL+IN+CANIDS,+HYAENIDS,+AND+FELIDS.&dq=THE+DELTOID+CREST+IS+BETTER+DEVELOPED+IN+PLANTIGRADES+THAN+DIGITIGRADES,+IT+IS+PARTICULARLY+EXTENDED+IN+URSIDS,+WHEREAS+IT+IS+SMALL+IN+CANIDS,+HYAENIDS,+AND+FELIDS.&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_ttz9l4blAhXdH7cAHb6hA3MQ6AEIKzAA

Science daily magazine.

Science Newsfrom research organizations
Flat-footed fighters: Heel-down posture in great apes and humans confers a fighting advantage

Summary:
Walking on our heels, a feature that separates great apes, including humans, from other primates, confers advantages in fighting, according to a new study. Although moving from the balls of the feet is important for quickness, standing with heels planted allows more swinging force, suggesting that aggression may have played a part in shaping our stance.

Another hypothesis, which Carrier and colleague Christopher Cunningham of the University of Georgia explored, is that a plantigrade stance allows the arms more striking force by increasing the torque, or rotational force that can be applied to the ground.

Full article:

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BEARS ARE "PLANTIGRADE" WHILE BIG CATS ARE "DIGITIGRADE" THIS MEANS BEARS HAVE MORE SWINGING FORCE AND A FIGHTING ADVANTAGE.

[kodiak]

Woooohoooooo, hahaha, looks like i cremated this guy once again. But all what me and him post is always the same crap. So ML, lets not waste any more time buddy, we have posted already basically everything we have. Lets start finishing this debate. Lets see your opinion ok, out of 10 face to face fights, who would win more?.give us your most honest answer.

Same weight.
Tiger 400 lbs vs brown bear 400 lbs?

Slight Weight advantage
Tiger 400 lbs vs brown bear 500 lbs?

Tiger 400 lbs vs brown bear 600 lbs?

Tiger 500 lbs vs brown bear 800 lbs?

Double the weight
Tiger 500 lbs vs brown bear 1000+ lbs?

Triple the weight
Tiger 500 lbs vs brown bear 1500 lbs?

Anyone else please give your opinions also ok, mods also. Lets start to close this out..lets see who made more of an impact, me or Mr Mountain Lord.

[smedz]

Oct 29, 2019 6:47:18 GMT 5 kodiak said:

Of course i love that guy Smedz. The most respected and most knowledgeable TIGER fan has won the debate for the bear fans. Read his posts clearly. Of course ML hates him because Peter debunks absolutely everything he posts.Peter has a PHD and is a researcher.

The most knowledgeable and respected tiger fan? What about the scientists in the wild of India or anywhere in Asia? Surely they're also tiger fans themselves aren't they? and I would argue the most respected is probably George Schaller. Peter is not a scientist, I know his profile says "Expert and Researcher" however, the profile of GuateGojira also says that, and his background has nothing to do with biology, zoology, etc. Yet that's what it says on his profile. So that doesn't mean you're a scientist, that just means you know a lot. And if peter really is a scientist, then what contributions has he actually made? Looking through google scholar you will not see his name appear in a paper once. 

[kodiak]

Smedz, are you reading my posts correcly buddy? Where did i say Peter is a god damn scientist or an expert? Link me the post. I said Peter is the most respected, smarter, and most knowledgeable TIGER fan in any forum, thats all i said. Peter has a PHD, he is a real researcher, he has done jobs for museums, like measuring skeletons and skulls, he has seen many animals in person. As a normal forum poster is concerned, Peter is the most knowledgeable BY FAR. just ask Paul Cooper and you will see. So surely all of Peters quotes matter and alot. Am i BEAR fan, so if i say bears win, they wilk tell me "oh but you are a bear fan" so when Peter says bears win and dominate the heavyweight division, and that the statistics favour the male bear over the male tiger, than what can be said to him? Nothing because that is a TIGER fan stating all that, based on his research anyways. Also, when PAUL COOPER states adult male brown bears win, what does this tell you? Cooper is top 5 smarter tiger fans, he argues day and night in favour of tigers. That is why i use these  2 guys as sources, because even TIGER fans favour the larger bears over tigers..So yes, you are also hurt Smedz because you are a tiger fan, lmao. You dont like it? I have an idea, get your ass to Wildfact, quote his posts and challenge him, lets see how it goes for you, lmao