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Post by creature386 on Dec 11, 2014 2:31:51 GMT 5
1. 16
2. I guess I'd try to give that thing some hard kicks (if I can catch it) and prevent it from getting behind or above me. I probably would fail at this, but it would still take some time until the fight ends.
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Post by malikc6 on Dec 11, 2014 2:33:09 GMT 5
Wait, how much do you weigh though? You should have a weight advantage, not to mention that you'd probably be in a flight or fight mode and be more powerful.
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Post by creature386 on Dec 11, 2014 2:35:40 GMT 5
Around of 120 lbs. This is pretty low for my height and sure as hell too low for a CL that weighs over 50 lbs, but probably sufficient for a CL below that. I don't have so much self-confidence, so I don't like judging what would happen. After all, these all are maybes in a situation I never experienced.
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Post by malikc6 on Dec 11, 2014 2:38:00 GMT 5
120 is more than twice that of a CL weighing 50 lbs. I'm sure you would win if you didn't panic. Or a extreme case if it was attacking a loved one.
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Post by creature386 on Dec 11, 2014 2:40:11 GMT 5
I guess you could even win when you panic.  The panic factor is a difficult one, but most of the people here have talked so much about it that they should be able not to panic in such a battle. |
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Post by malikc6 on Dec 11, 2014 2:42:01 GMT 5
That's kind of like me. I'm kind of crazy, as in I put myself in very rare and sometimes impossible scenarios up to the point where if it happened, I know what to do. I even have a plan if a bear or lion attacked me. I'd lose, but I'll try to take out an eye, or pull off an ear.
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Post by theropod on Dec 12, 2014 2:56:55 GMT 5
Depends on what kind of panic. If I tried to run or made the mistake of trying to grapple with the cat, that would be very unpleasant. If, on the other hand, I just used it to burst the speed and viciousness of my attacks it’s the cat for which it would be painful. I think the most relevant advantage here is reach.
The CL has to get in very close to cause serious damage (which is a problem when going against a much larger opponent because it brings you into a direct strength contest), while a human (even a relatively short individual) has the long limbs necessary to keep it at a distance and kick or punch it to death. Damage that the CL could inflict would thus likely be limited to the distal limb segments, which makes it unlikely that aside from infections it would be life-threatening. If it comes in closer, it has the chance of causing more serious stuff tough, especially if its claws or teeth somehow reach the neck or face, or the abdomen. Preventing that should be any human’s foremost goal when fighting a cat.
Considering I’m over 3 times the weight of the feline, I’d probably stomp and beat it to death sooner or later, albeit with some serious clawing wounds on my arms or legs. If the cat manages to come in close enough, it stands a decent chance due to its weaponery, but in most scenarios I don’t see it coming past my arms and legs, despite all its agility (and it lacks the physical strenght to get there by overpowering me).
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Post by malikc6 on Dec 12, 2014 9:31:51 GMT 5
I don't see too much wrong with grappling with it other than having a slightly better chance to getting to the throat, but I'd be trying to grab it and choke it too death with a strangle hold, or probably bash its head into a tree, or break its back with brute force. I'd get scratched up no doubt, but in the fight. I'd be too pissed off and concentrated on winning than to care about pain that will only slow me down. In fact, for most people, that tends to happen. I personally think that at the very most, an average man can fight a grey wolf or a large dog and kill it and need medical attention later, and possibly a small cougar around 110 lbs. However, he has to not panic and keep attacking, because we all know that most people flail and focus more on escape than fighting for their lives. One reason why I think a man can kill a wolf (if he fights hard with the intention to win), is because about two years ago, I read nearly every single case on wolves attacking humans. For the most part, the people that were killed were women, children, and in some cases, the elderly. When men are killed, its often by a pack of wolves. In fact, Discovery Channel did an episode on a man named Carnegie Kenton, who was unfortunately mauled too death by a pack of wolves, but he fought hard before dying according to the autopsy. He was 22 years of age when he died. There are many more cases of wolf attacks that took place back in the 1600s and early 1700s. On the other hand, when wolves provoked human males one on one, the man often lived to tell the tale. I have accounts of men winning against fights with wolves on one one bare handed, or the man would fight it long enough for the wolf to submit and run off, or the man intimidating the wolf to leave. There is even an account of a blind man who killed a wolf with his hands!!! news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1338&dat=19541231&id=BQNYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ovYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5628,6229420 Yes we have tight skin close to the muscle and don't have predatory weapons, and yes we tend to panic, but it doesn't mean we are helpless. You could compare that animal with our anatomy, but from what's happened in the past, most victims are not adult males. Even when present! It's often women, children, and the elderly. We are very capable of defending ourselves and winning, but we just can't panic. Keep your balance, be ready to take pain, and when you see a good chance to gain an advantage, go for it, because that animal is going for blood, not punches or kicks, but blood. Now for cougars, I feel like at the most, a fit man and possibly the average man could potentially kill a cougar weighing significantly less than him, like a female cougar. The average male cougar is around 140 lbs on average and would be too much for most men because of its claws and agility, even with the 40 lbs weight advantage. What would suck is that you would have to grapple with it because punching and kicking won't be effective because they won't connect very well, and they are more durable than humans. You'd have to try to strangle it, or break a leg, and you'd be bleeding out by the time that happens. Heck even a leopard with just a few attacks, managed to scalp a man. Luckily he survived. A female cougar weighing about 90 lbs I think a man could beat, unless he panics, and then the cougar bites his throat or back. Even that would be pretty hard to beat. My father who is very strong weighing 240 lbs I know for a fact could win, but he'd be nearly dead once its over and need medical attention. Cougar killing human accounts is similar to that of wolves, but its easy to find men getting killed to, but cougars are ambush predators. A 35 year old man who was riding his bike was killed by a cougar that weighed 110 lbs from an ambush attack. If that had been head on, I personally think he would still be alive. |
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Post by malikc6 on Dec 12, 2014 10:08:05 GMT 5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_StatesThis supports my point. Some men are killed by a dog one on one, but most of the time, they are old men. Men in their 40s are attacked by multiple dogs, and men in their 50s are old and even they are attacked by multiple dogs. Others are children, babies/infants, and women. Not too many men die from one on one attack regardless of the dog breed.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2016 0:32:12 GMT 5
Are we choosing ourselves as a representative as the human fighting with the clouded leopard? Or are we using a different human, like a strong adult male with good military experience?
I'm a 14 year old person, 50 kg. I'm quite skinny (but gaining a bit of muscle), and my favourite sport is running. I am some of the fastest people in my year in my school, and I'll be honest with you; I'm usually more flight than fight. I could fight quite a few people I know around my age, but I don't fight as much as I used to, when sometimes I would give somebody a good beating in a fist fight for sometimes little reasons. My main fighting type is to either punch as quickly as possible or as hard as I can, or to grapple onto my opponent.
So, facing off with a 23 kg clouded leopard. Yes, the cat would be smaller than me in height or weight. But cats have the weaponry to take down things bigger than themselves. Smaller or less impressive cats have taken down things much larger than themselves, or even a human. Eurasian lynx will very occasionally take on a red deer, for example. I know that clouded leopards don't regularly take down prey larger than themselves, but they have the weaponry to potentially take down an opponent bigger than themselves. I've heard that clouded leopards might take on boar though, and here's an account of a Clouded Leopard killing an orangutan:
"That morning, Pak Cobe had gone into the Forest Quarantine area, and discovered a young orangutan dead in her cage. Both her arms were chewed off; her chest torn open. We found footprints, claw marks and animal hairs nearby, and tooth and claw marks on her body. From these and the nature of the injuries, we concluded she had been attacked by a big cat, most likely a clouded leopard which is the only large carnivore found in Tanjung Puting National Park."
If I were to face on a Clouded Leopard, it would be hard for me to really find an approach that wouldn't involve myself getting cut or injured in some other way. It's true that my adrenaline might kick in that might make me more determined to fight the leopard, but the leopard fighting an opponent larger than itself would have a lot of adrenaline inside it as well, wouldn't it?
Trying to punch at an area like the face would probably result in my hand getting bitten at, or perhaps clawed at on my arm or hand. An attack like that from the feline could damage me enough that I might actually get a bit distracted at the wounds I have, and then get injured more. If you get injured badly enough, you wouldn't just get back up and get into rage-mode like in Mortal Kombat or something like that. It's natural to be wary of how to approach an animal with very large claws and teeth. Being somebody who has owned cats for a long time, I know what it feels like to be decked in the face or scratched on the arm/hand by a cat, and it can be more painful than I can sometimes imagine. If you are injured good enough by an animal you can consider large with large claws and teeth, it would hinder your ability to fight properly and make you more liable to panic. It sounds obvious, but it's apparent to me that some people are quite confident in saying how they would fight another animal without thinking about how the other animal would kill them or how dangerous a risk it could be. Maybe others are different to me, a lot of you guys are a lot older than me.
This low-lung animal would most likely be difficult to wrestle at either, because any attempt of mine to perform a move like that or similar to that could just result in me getting injured, even if I just go down to reach at the clouded leopard to perform a grappling move, I still have the risk of the CL grabbing me to get a good bite or claw at me.
My best option would be to kick at the Clouded Leopard's head with as much force and speed as I can, and hope to stun it or injure it enough so that I can further damage it with more punches and kicks. But this cat is quite low-lung and agile, so there's a good chance that my kick won't be that hard on the cat, but I'm not really that sure.
Are people really going to say to me something like, "you could roundhouse kick the leopard, or wrestle it, or grab its tail and swing the cat around with it!"?
I'm not a cage fighter, or anything similar to that. Please don't be that surprised when I say that a Clouded Leopard can kill me.
I'm not exactly saying I wouldn't ever have a chance of winning this either, but out of the cats in the 20-30 kg range, the last one I would want to approach is the clouded leopard.
Sunda Clouded Leopards can reach 70 lb, btw.
---
Not really sure about an average adult human though, and I admit that a person with good military/fighting experience should be able to win this.
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Post by malikc6 on Mar 8, 2016 15:29:53 GMT 5
Are we choosing ourselves as a representative as the human fighting with the clouded leopard? Or are we using a different human, like a strong adult male with good military experience? Why does the man need military experience to fight a small predator? An average joe could kill this thing via beating it too death or strangulation.
I'm a 14 year old person, 50 kg. I'm quite skinny (but gaining a bit of muscle), and my favourite sport is running. I am some of the fastest people in my year in my school, and I'll be honest with you; I'm usually more flight than fight. I could fight quite a few people I know around my age, but I don't fight as much as I used to, when sometimes I would give somebody a good beating in a fist fight for sometimes little reasons. My main fighting type is to either punch as quickly as possible or as hard as I can, or to grapple onto my opponent. Strong kid.
So, facing off with a 23 kg clouded leopard. Yes, the cat would be smaller than me in height or weight. But cats have the weaponry to take down things bigger than themselves. Smaller or less impressive cats have taken down things much larger than themselves, or even a human. Eurasian lynx will very occasionally take on a red deer, for example. I know that clouded leopards don't regularly take down prey larger than themselves, but they have the weaponry to potentially take down an opponent bigger than themselves. I've heard that clouded leopards might take on boar though, and here's an account of a Clouded Leopard killing an orangutan: " That morning, Pak Cobe had gone into the Forest Quarantine area, and discovered a young orangutan dead in her cage. Both her arms were chewed off; her chest torn open. We found footprints, claw marks and animal hairs nearby, and tooth and claw marks on her body. From these and the nature of the injuries, we concluded she had been attacked by a big cat, most likely a clouded leopard which is the only large carnivore found in Tanjung Puting National Park."
There are a few things wrong with this, including the instance of the orangutan getting killed. 23kg is 50 lbs going up against a kid (you) with fighting experience weighing 140 lbs. You are more than a match for a clouded leopard. Unless you think you would panic and somehow allow the cat you get to your throat (which is hard to do because we are bipedal), you shouldn't lose that fight. A well placed punch or kick could break a rib of the clouded leopard or even cause potentially fatal damage. If a person managed to grab/catch the cat while standing up, he could bash it into the ground or into a tree, or even throw it.
And as for the orangutan getting killed by the supposed clouded leopard, for one they simply predicted that it could have been a clouded leopard, and it also was young female that was killed. I doubt this would have been the case if it was fully grown, or a fully grown male. But lets say the ape was killed. This still doesn't mean that the clouded leopard would win more often than not against a human considering that human beings are the only primates capable of punching/grappling and kicking efficiently with individual strategies/tactics behind them. No other primate can do this. They flail, push, and bite with at best knocking their opponent to the ground and bashing on them by flailing. In my opinion, a trained fighter should be able to defeat an orangutan despite the ape being stronger. The physiologies aren't all that different, which means that many of the moves that work on humans should work on them as well. If I were to face on a Clouded Leopard, it would be hard for me to really find an approach that wouldn't involve myself getting cut or injured in some other way. It's true that my adrenaline might kick in that might make me more determined to fight the leopard, but the leopard fighting an opponent larger than itself would have a lot of adrenaline inside it as well, wouldn't it? The problem with many cat fans is that they tend to overestimate their ability to take down prey much larger than themselves. They never seem to take in how difficult this is, and how many times they often fail to bring down large prey before it works. A good example would be a tiger taking down a large buffalo weighing more than it does, and try to apply the same logic to a tiger being able to take down a grizzly bear. The difference between the buffalo and the bear is that the bear is also a carnivore and has carnivorous weapons. It will not be as simple as taking down the herbivore. Buffalo's can only kick and fight with their horns. They can't grapple, throw a paw swipe, or bite like a grizzly bear would.
Taking down Red deer wouldn't be the same as taking on a person. Though we don't have natural weapons like claws or big sharp teeth, we can defend ourselves much more effectively than a Red deer ever could against a Clouded leopard. If normal prey is bitten and held down, it cannot pull the cat off like a person could, or even use their hands to gouge/poke the cat in the eyes. And adrenaline for an animal of 23kg wouldn't be able to match yours considering you are already by nature a lot stronger than the cat. You would likely be kicking, punching, stomping on the cat that at best could probably jump onto your chest or face while its getting beaten too death. Heck a person could end it quickly by grappling the cat, getting on top of it, and choke it too death. Sure the person would get scratched up bad, but would win. Trying to punch at an area like the face would probably result in my hand getting bitten at, or perhaps clawed at on my arm or hand. An attack like that from the feline could damage me enough that I might actually get a bit distracted at the wounds I have, and then get injured more. If you get injured badly enough, you wouldn't just get back up and get into rage-mode like in Mortal Kombat or something like that. It's natural to be wary of how to approach an animal with very large claws and teeth. Being somebody who has owned cats for a long time, I know what it feels like to be decked in the face or scratched on the arm/hand by a cat, and it can be more painful than I can sometimes imagine. If you are injured good enough by an animal you can consider large with large claws and teeth, it would hinder your ability to fight properly and make you more liable to panic. It sounds obvious, but it's apparent to me that some people are quite confident in saying how they would fight another animal without thinking about how the other animal would kill them or how dangerous a risk it could be. Maybe others are different to me, a lot of you guys are a lot older than me. And you think the fight would just end there? You would't punch at it as its attacking your arm or grab it from there? It's not like you'll step in and get your arm destroyed and just stop fighting from there. I can't speak for everyone, but if I'm under attack by a WILD ANIMAL, I'd have no choice but to ignore pain the best I can and focus on either killing the animal, or driving it off long enough to get medical treatment depending on what attacked me. I refuse to fail and die just because I couldn't take pain to save myself. I won't insult others because everyone is an individual, but to me, failing to accomplish something important like your life because of pain is very pathetic.
Also I've been scratched a few times before by cats, mostly at my uncle's house where he has a ton of cats (he's weird.) To me, their scratches burn and itch, but don't really hurt all that much. Just don't let them get you in the eyes. And also there are people who get angrier when they are hurt. Even if brutally hurt. Just talk to some street fighters or pro fighters. This low-lung animal would most likely be difficult to wrestle at either, because any attempt of mine to perform a move like that or similar to that could just result in me getting injured, even if I just go down to reach at the clouded leopard to perform a grappling move, I still have the risk of the CL grabbing me to get a good bite or claw at me. Grappling the cat would be unpleasant because you risk getting your face clawed yes, but the cat would be nearly completely helpless if you manage to get on top of it where it has NO hope of winning. A person could pin the Clouded leopard's forearms to the ground, and put down his weight onto its stomach. One could be more brutal and knee it in the stomach by freeing a leg and have it crash back down which could potentially rupture an organ and break bone. Once again in this position, you could simply strange the cat, and it would scratch and flail around for a bit until it suffocates. My best option would be to kick at the Clouded Leopard's head with as much force and speed as I can, and hope to stun it or injure it enough so that I can further damage it with more punches and kicks. But this cat is quite low-lung and agile, so there's a good chance that my kick won't be that hard on the cat, but I'm not really that sure. Honestly if a person charged a Clouded Leopard with the intention to kick it, it would just run away. I really do think that a Clouded Leopard would never really even think of risking fighting a much larger opponent like a human. Remember that even though this animal has claws and teeth and agility, this doesn't negate the fact that the human is 3-4 times larger, and has agility of his own, and because the cat has to get in close to cause damage, it's agility really isn't all that effective like many people think it does. If the two are fighting, the man should be able to grab the cat if it's foolish enough to get in close to the human. Are people really going to say to me something like, "you could roundhouse kick the leopard, or wrestle it, or grab its tail and swing the cat around with it!"? I don't exactly know about roundhouse kicking it, but you could indeed wrestle it. I'm not a cage fighter, or anything similar to that. Please don't be that surprised when I say that a Clouded Leopard can kill me. I am surprised. Overall I think you would do just fine against one. People really overestimate felines and underestimate humans. I'm not exactly saying I wouldn't ever have a chance of winning this either, but out of the cats in the 20-30 kg range, the last one I would want to approach is the clouded leopard. Sunda Clouded Leopards can reach 70 lb, btw. Ok maybe a 70lb Clouded Leopard would give you some hell, but a 40-50lb one? You'll get scratched pretty badly no doubt about that, but should win.--- Not really sure about an average adult human though, and I admit that a person with good military/fighting experience should be able to win this. Once again, an average man could win this easily if his life was on the line. The average man is 180 lbs (at least in the United States.) That weight advantage is simply too much, and since humans aren't part of the Clouded Leopard's prey item, it would be pretty hard to figure out an effective way to kill the punching/kicking human.
Really the reason why people underestimate humans is because of our pain tolerance for the most part, and how a lot of us react to animal aggression like dogs. I've seen small dogs intimidate people capable of killing them barehanded. Even my 20lb Doxone had my friend up a fence because he was afraid to get bitten and yelled for me to get her away from him. My same dog also chased my sister's friend up into her bed as she cried in fear. I'm not making this up. A middle schooler (at the time) ran from a 20 lb dog and cried. The most extreme one I witnessed was a stranger on the phone who froze like an ice cube when my dog growled at him when I was walking her.
But that isn't everyone. There are a lot people who would fight hard if it meant their life and their health. Overall, the Clouded Leopard is 50 lbs against a much bigger opponent with better effective grappling capabilities and intelligence to back them up. And even though you're 14, I really do think you could win against one. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2016 22:26:04 GMT 5
Are we choosing ourselves as a representative as the human fighting with the clouded leopard? Or are we using a different human, like a strong adult male with good military experience? Why does the man need military experience to fight a small predator? An average joe could kill this thing via beating it too death or strangulation.
I'm a 14 year old person, 50 kg. I'm quite skinny (but gaining a bit of muscle), and my favourite sport is running. I am some of the fastest people in my year in my school, and I'll be honest with you; I'm usually more flight than fight. I could fight quite a few people I know around my age, but I don't fight as much as I used to, when sometimes I would give somebody a good beating in a fist fight for sometimes little reasons. My main fighting type is to either punch as quickly as possible or as hard as I can, or to grapple onto my opponent. Strong kid.
So, facing off with a 23 kg clouded leopard. Yes, the cat would be smaller than me in height or weight. But cats have the weaponry to take down things bigger than themselves. Smaller or less impressive cats have taken down things much larger than themselves, or even a human. Eurasian lynx will very occasionally take on a red deer, for example. I know that clouded leopards don't regularly take down prey larger than themselves, but they have the weaponry to potentially take down an opponent bigger than themselves. I've heard that clouded leopards might take on boar though, and here's an account of a Clouded Leopard killing an orangutan: " That morning, Pak Cobe had gone into the Forest Quarantine area, and discovered a young orangutan dead in her cage. Both her arms were chewed off; her chest torn open. We found footprints, claw marks and animal hairs nearby, and tooth and claw marks on her body. From these and the nature of the injuries, we concluded she had been attacked by a big cat, most likely a clouded leopard which is the only large carnivore found in Tanjung Puting National Park."
There are a few things wrong with this, including the instance of the orangutan getting killed. 23kg is 50 lbs going up against a kid (you) with fighting experience weighing 140 lbs. You are more than a match for a clouded leopard. Unless you think you would panic and somehow allow the cat you get to your throat (which is hard to do because we are bipedal), you shouldn't lose that fight. A well placed punch or kick could break a rib of the clouded leopard or even cause potentially fatal damage. If a person managed to grab/catch the cat while standing up, he could bash it into the ground or into a tree, or even throw it.
And as for the orangutan getting killed by the supposed clouded leopard, for one they simply predicted that it could have been a clouded leopard, and it also was young female that was killed. I doubt this would have been the case if it was fully grown, or a fully grown male. But lets say the ape was killed. This still doesn't mean that the clouded leopard would win more often than not against a human considering that human beings are the only primates capable of punching/grappling and kicking efficiently with individual strategies/tactics behind them. No other primate can do this. They flail, push, and bite with at best knocking their opponent to the ground and bashing on them by flailing. In my opinion, a trained fighter should be able to defeat an orangutan despite the ape being stronger. The physiologies aren't all that different, which means that many of the moves that work on humans should work on them as well. If I were to face on a Clouded Leopard, it would be hard for me to really find an approach that wouldn't involve myself getting cut or injured in some other way. It's true that my adrenaline might kick in that might make me more determined to fight the leopard, but the leopard fighting an opponent larger than itself would have a lot of adrenaline inside it as well, wouldn't it? The problem with many cat fans is that they tend to overestimate their ability to take down prey much larger than themselves. They never seem to take in how difficult this is, and how many times they often fail to bring down large prey before it works. A good example would be a tiger taking down a large buffalo weighing more than it does, and try to apply the same logic to a tiger being able to take down a grizzly bear. The difference between the buffalo and the bear is that the bear is also a carnivore and has carnivorous weapons. It will not be as simple as taking down the herbivore. Buffalo's can only kick and fight with their horns. They can't grapple, throw a paw swipe, or bite like a grizzly bear would.
Taking down Red deer wouldn't be the same as taking on a person. Though we don't have natural weapons like claws or big sharp teeth, we can defend ourselves much more effectively than a Red deer ever could against a Clouded leopard. If normal prey is bitten and held down, it cannot pull the cat off like a person could, or even use their hands to gouge/poke the cat in the eyes. And adrenaline for an animal of 23kg wouldn't be able to match yours considering you are already by nature a lot stronger than the cat. You would likely be kicking, punching, stomping on the cat that at best could probably jump onto your chest or face while its getting beaten too death. Heck a person could end it quickly by grappling the cat, getting on top of it, and choke it too death. Sure the person would get scratched up bad, but would win. Trying to punch at an area like the face would probably result in my hand getting bitten at, or perhaps clawed at on my arm or hand. An attack like that from the feline could damage me enough that I might actually get a bit distracted at the wounds I have, and then get injured more. If you get injured badly enough, you wouldn't just get back up and get into rage-mode like in Mortal Kombat or something like that. It's natural to be wary of how to approach an animal with very large claws and teeth. Being somebody who has owned cats for a long time, I know what it feels like to be decked in the face or scratched on the arm/hand by a cat, and it can be more painful than I can sometimes imagine. If you are injured good enough by an animal you can consider large with large claws and teeth, it would hinder your ability to fight properly and make you more liable to panic. It sounds obvious, but it's apparent to me that some people are quite confident in saying how they would fight another animal without thinking about how the other animal would kill them or how dangerous a risk it could be. Maybe others are different to me, a lot of you guys are a lot older than me. And you think the fight would just end there? You would't punch at it as its attacking your arm or grab it from there? It's not like you'll step in and get your arm destroyed and just stop fighting from there. I can't speak for everyone, but if I'm under attack by a WILD ANIMAL, I'd have no choice but to ignore pain the best I can and focus on either killing the animal, or driving it off long enough to get medical treatment depending on what attacked me. I refuse to fail and die just because I couldn't take pain to save myself. I won't insult others because everyone is an individual, but to me, failing to accomplish something important like your life because of pain is very pathetic.
Also I've been scratched a few times before by cats, mostly at my uncle's house where he has a ton of cats (he's weird.) To me, their scratches burn and itch, but don't really hurt all that much. Just don't let them get you in the eyes. And also there are people who get angrier when they are hurt. Even if brutally hurt. Just talk to some street fighters or pro fighters. This low-lung animal would most likely be difficult to wrestle at either, because any attempt of mine to perform a move like that or similar to that could just result in me getting injured, even if I just go down to reach at the clouded leopard to perform a grappling move, I still have the risk of the CL grabbing me to get a good bite or claw at me. Grappling the cat would be unpleasant because you risk getting your face clawed yes, but the cat would be nearly completely helpless if you manage to get on top of it where it has NO hope of winning. A person could pin the Clouded leopard's forearms to the ground, and put down his weight onto its stomach. One could be more brutal and knee it in the stomach by freeing a leg and have it crash back down which could potentially rupture an organ and break bone. Once again in this position, you could simply strange the cat, and it would scratch and flail around for a bit until it suffocates. My best option would be to kick at the Clouded Leopard's head with as much force and speed as I can, and hope to stun it or injure it enough so that I can further damage it with more punches and kicks. But this cat is quite low-lung and agile, so there's a good chance that my kick won't be that hard on the cat, but I'm not really that sure. Honestly if a person charged a Clouded Leopard with the intention to kick it, it would just run away. I really do think that a Clouded Leopard would never really even think of risking fighting a much larger opponent like a human. Remember that even though this animal has claws and teeth and agility, this doesn't negate the fact that the human is 3-4 times larger, and has agility of his own, and because the cat has to get in close to cause damage, it's agility really isn't all that effective like many people think it does. If the two are fighting, the man should be able to grab the cat if it's foolish enough to get in close to the human. Are people really going to say to me something like, "you could roundhouse kick the leopard, or wrestle it, or grab its tail and swing the cat around with it!"? I don't exactly know about roundhouse kicking it, but you could indeed wrestle it. I'm not a cage fighter, or anything similar to that. Please don't be that surprised when I say that a Clouded Leopard can kill me. I am surprised. Overall I think you would do just fine against one. People really overestimate felines and underestimate humans. I'm not exactly saying I wouldn't ever have a chance of winning this either, but out of the cats in the 20-30 kg range, the last one I would want to approach is the clouded leopard. Sunda Clouded Leopards can reach 70 lb, btw. Ok maybe a 70lb Clouded Leopard would give you some hell, but a 40-50lb one? You'll get scratched pretty badly no doubt about that, but should win.--- Not really sure about an average adult human though, and I admit that a person with good military/fighting experience should be able to win this. Once again, an average man could win this easily if his life was on the line. The average man is 180 lbs (at least in the United States.) That weight advantage is simply too much, and since humans aren't part of the Clouded Leopard's prey item, it would be pretty hard to figure out an effective way to kill the punching/kicking human.
Really the reason why people underestimate humans is because of our pain tolerance for the most part, and how a lot of us react to animal aggression like dogs. I've seen small dogs intimidate people capable of killing them barehanded. Even my 20lb Doxone had my friend up a fence because he was afraid to get bitten and yelled for me to get her away from him. My same dog also chased my sister's friend up into her bed as she cried in fear. I'm not making this up. A middle schooler (at the time) ran from a 20 lb dog and cried. The most extreme one I witnessed was a stranger on the phone who froze like an ice cube when my dog growled at him when I was walking her.
But that isn't everyone. There are a lot people who would fight hard if it meant their life and their health. Overall, the Clouded Leopard is 50 lbs against a much bigger opponent with better effective grappling capabilities and intelligence to back them up. And even though you're 14, I really do think you could win against one. For the first part, I was just wondering. There are so many variables for humans, and I don't think this thread seems to specify if this is a fight between me and a clouded leopard or some other person, like an "average" American human. Thanks. To be honest, with the red deer comparison I was just saying that to also say that cats around that size range can also kill tall and strong opponents. But I do think you are right that the human is probably harder to fight face-to-face, as it is more dexterous and better at thinking of all different ways of fighting. Orangutans are rather large apes, and have been recorded killing each other (not sure if it's all that reliable but I'll just post it here.): link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00265-015-2053-3/fulltext.htmlAlso, humans aren't the only apes to make a fist: Source: news.discovery.com/human/evolution/human-hands-evolved-for-punching-121219.htmI probably explained that part wrong, I probably wouldn't just straight away lay there in pain. But if the clouded leopard can already claw me and bite me enough, it would probably injure me pretty good later on in the fight if I didn't already kill the clouded leopard quickly, and that's saying if I even do kill the CL (for now, undecided against me and a clouded leopard for now). I react pretty badly to cuts and wounds, and being clawed or cut by a clouded leopard, who is adamant to injure me as much as it can or to kill me anyway, would probably freak me out a bit. Wouldn't faze me completely, but it would hinder me a bit from fighting knowing that if I continue to fight, I could make the mistake of cutting myself even more. I'm not the kind of person that gets into a complete rage mode after being hurt quite badly. Maybe if I am punched or kicked once or a few times, I would probably then try to fight back, but if I am hurt enough against a person that I know I would lose the fight, I wouldn't start fighting anymore. I know that I wouldn't be COMPLETELY mismatched in a fight against a Clouded Leopard, but I would probably avoid/ignore an animal that I feel I can't kill. But I don't really think that a Clouded Leopard would actively try to hunt a human anyway, most likely it would try to attack in defence. That's probably not what I meant by grappling. I actually mistook "grappling" for "grasping". Yeah, I guess if I grappled it by going on top of its back then proceeding to kill it by grabbing it at a vulnerable area, but that's only if I could grab it on the back. If it was still ready to be able to claw and bite at me, it would probably try to avoid myself from grabbing it. But you are right, if I can grapple it or grasp it then I could perhaps stand a good chance of winning. I agree. And a kick to a Clouded Leopard would probably disable the leopard quite a bit. But if I was fighting a Clouded Leopard and it started to run after becoming a bit intimidated, I probably wouldn't start chasing after it. To be honest, I think that I wouldn't want to KILL a clouded leopard most of the time, but if I really felt like saving my life from potential danger that a Clouded Leopard could cause, then I guess I would have to fight to the death. A kick would probably be the best way to try to disable the clouded leopard for me though, as it gives me more reach and it would help me to make an attack without being scratched or bitten at severe areas. Wrestling it would probably be a bit difficult for me to preform without me getting scratched and bitten quite a bit. But I guess it really depends on the move I would make, maybe if I can grapple it and grasp onto its back, that could count. I am quite surprised by that statement to be honest. When I think of myself fighting a Clouded Leopard, I don't really see it as "mismatch in favour of me". I've kind of changed my mind a bit, I don't really think that there would be that much of a point of killing such a smaller animal, especially considering that I could possibly intimidate the cat. Basically, what I'm saying is that this would be a stalemate (ignoring each other). But I'm still not sure in a fight to the death. I would probably actually say that a 70 lb CL could win against me most of the time, if it doesn't already win against me most of the time and just injures me or intimidates me. Those cases are probably some of the reasons that I favoured a Clouded Leopard against myself, because I'm already still wary of my cat in case it starts scratching me (not a phobia, but she is a bit cheeky and she sometimes likes to grab my feet) or biting me. I also used to have a pretty bad phobia of dogs, but I no longer have such a fear (I own a dog now). But I don't really think that it's all that rare for people to react like that, it's just a bit of human instinct to react like that when such an animal becomes quite aggressive. Although it is true that if I feel like my life is in danger, that I would probably react more aggressively than to panic from an animal that wouldn't kill me, I would still be wary of fighting such an animal. (off-topic, but just asking, were you ever on carnivoraforum? if so, what was your name/who were you on there? and what match-up would you like here with a clouded leopard that you would think would be closer than this one?) |
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Post by malikc6 on Mar 9, 2016 0:27:27 GMT 5
I was banned from carnivora back in 2012 after trying to advertise another site on there. I was also a lot younger and naive and shouldn't have done that, but from what I've heard from many people, Taipan is a corrupt site owner and is "Ban Happy."
As for this fight being closer, I'd say a wolverine.
By the way for the apes making fists, I know they can make fists, but they still do not punch the way we do. Humans are more coordinated with their blows for the most part. You can kill by flailing with fists until enough damage is done, but a coordinated well placed strike is more effective. In any case, I severely doubt a Clouded Leopard could kill a fully grown Orangutan. Being 3-4 times stronger than a man, it's blow would likely cause so much damage on the cat that it couldn't continue.
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Post by spartan on Mar 9, 2016 0:39:31 GMT 5
The 3-4 times stronger figure is vastly exaggerated.
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Post by malikc6 on Mar 9, 2016 0:49:18 GMT 5
The 3-4 times stronger figure is vastly exaggerated. For chimps yes it is. Orangutans, I would say it's a decent estimation. I've read so many articles claiming that chimps were 5-7 times stronger than humans and gorillas being 20-40 times stronger than humans. In any case, I very much doubt a Clouded Leopard is killing a fully grow Orangutan without getting its head bashed in. |
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