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Post by dinosauria101 on Mar 23, 2020 17:47:52 GMT 5
brobear, what makes you think that that was a female black bear? Just curious
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Mar 24, 2020 4:44:53 GMT 5
"On February 6th in Sikhote-Alen a tigress discovered the den of a femalebear with yearlings.
Harassed the mother", did....did you seriously not read the account?
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Post by dinosauria101 on Mar 24, 2020 4:59:16 GMT 5
I misread and thought it was a brown bear. My bad.
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Post by brobear on Mar 24, 2020 16:59:09 GMT 5
Absolutely no confirmed report of a tiger in the wild ever killing a mature male brown bear under any circumstances.  |
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Post by brobear on Mar 24, 2020 17:02:39 GMT 5
brobear , what makes you think that that was a female black bear? Just curious I have read that brown bears normally dig their dens at higher elevations and that they are more difficult to locate. Also, most often when someone is talking about a brown bear, they specify. |
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Mar 24, 2020 17:49:57 GMT 5
Asiatic black bears are found in tiger territory more so than the Ussuri brown bears. Female Ussuri brown bears avoid Siberian tigers to raise their cubs safely. Male Ussuri brown bears prefer to be where females are and as a reason hardly encounter Siberian tigers (only 600 tigers left means the interaction is rare).
Asiatic black bears being the climbers can live in tiger territory because at the first sight of danger, they can climb trees. Asiatic black bears will fight back if there is nowhere to run or if the tiger is too close to them.
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Post by brobear on Mar 25, 2020 13:15:08 GMT 5
Basic cat behavior - Cats evolved into cats roughly 10 million years ago. Ten-million years of being ambush predators ( if not more ). This is not an insult nor meant as a jab at cat enthusiasts. It is simply a fact.
Being an ambush predator is probably the smartest choice a predator could make. Easier than the long chase chosen by the canids. The big cats are ( IMO ) the greatest predators of large herbivores on terrestrial earth. Wolves and wild dogs have a higher success-rate, but it is the big cats who hunt the biggest prey animals.
But, as a drawback, the cats dislike frontal confrontations. I have read from more than a single source, and this from professional outdoorsmen, that a tiger is a cowardly animal. I completely disagree with this assessment. First of all, the tiger is simply displaying basic cat behavior and is no more a coward than a leopard or a cougar. The reputation falls on him because he ( the tiger ) is the biggest of the living big cats.
Another reason I strongly disagree with this assessment; a tiger will ambush a bull buffalo or a bull gaur. Some might argue that it takes no courage to leap upon a 2,000+ pound bull bovine by surprise. I wouldn't do it; not even with a Bowie knife if my hand.
But needless to say; it has been discussed here multiple times on multiple topics, tigers and other big cats will relinquish a kill to a big bear rather than risk death or injury in a face-to-face fight. Frontal attacks are simply not a part of basic cat behavior.
On the other hand, it is basic bear behavior to displace other predators from their kills. This includes face-to-face confrontations with other predator species. Bears are simply more attuned to head-to-head fights than are the big cats.
It has been suggested here that lions and jaguars might be exceptions to the rule. But to what extent?
Lions fight lions. This is a well known fact. But, tigers fight tigers also. Maybe not as often; or perhaps this is simply due to there being less tigers? Neither in Africa nor in India does the lion share his environment with any other large predator near his own size or weight. Therefore, we really have nothing to base the lion being in a different class. As for the jaguar, I have watched videos of his leaping onto a caiman ( from a tree or the bank ) into the water. The big cat lands on the reptile and almost instantly has his jaws on the reptiles neck or skull. It is an ambush attack. There are in some remote locations of the jaguar, bears. Yet we have only a small amount of data where the jaguar has ambushed and killed small she-bears ( and possibly juvenile bears ). No head-to-head battles.
So, are the lion and the jaguar exceptions to the rule of basic cat behavior. In my opinion - we have no proof of this.
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Post by panthera10 on Mar 25, 2020 15:26:42 GMT 5
Mazak in his book, Der Tiger He cited account of tiger killed by hunter Jankowski, the tiger killed a very large male brown bear This is the tiger  |
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Post by brobear on Mar 26, 2020 5:51:06 GMT 5
Quote: Mazak in his book, Der Tiger
He cited account of tiger killed by hunter Jankowski, the tiger killed a very large male brown bear.
*A well known event. Jankowski was a hunter. He shot and killed a huge tiger that had for quite some time been feeding on the carcass of a big male brown bear. In fact, after shooting the tiger, he finds the head and one paw of the big bear. Little else. Obviously, the tiger had been feasting on this bear carcass for some number of days. No way of knowing if the tiger actually killed the bear. Unconfirmed.
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Post by brobear on Mar 27, 2020 1:51:54 GMT 5
Sysoev is one of the very few who saw a number of fights between adult tigers and adult brown bears. In one case, the fight ended undecided. In another, a male tiger killed an adult female and in two others the male tigers were defeated. At least one of the two male tigers was killed. Many think this incident happened in 1960. Sysoev later wrote a story about an encounter between a male tiger and a male bear called 'Amba'. Although the story probably is fictional, chances are he used things he actually saw. I'll post the story in some time. For now, I'll try to paint the picture that emerged from the story. Sysoev wrote about the life of a male tiger in eastern Russia. I'm not sure, but I think the tiger was a youngish adult. He wrote how the tiger hunted, killed and ate a wolf. Later, he killed a male Himalayan black bear. In winter, the tiger had to walk long distances to find the animals he preferred most (deer and wild boars). Some of the animals he killed were confiscated by a large male brown bear. The bear was so large, the tiger wouldn't have had a chance in a fight. He had no option but to accept it. But when another, slightly smaller, male tried to rob him of a wild boar he had killed, the tiger decided to defend his kill. The bear was a large male, but weightwise below par as a result of a lack of food. Maybe the bear was a 'Schatun' and maybe it was just after hibernation. I don't remember. Anyhow. The tiger first threatened the bear, who wasn't impressed. Then a fight started. In the first stages, the tiger was able to get behind the bear. Every time he succeeded, the neck was targeted. In spite of the severe wounds he inflicted, he couldn't get to the vertebrae because the bear was able to get out of the grip of the tiger using his weight. After some time, the tiger tired and the bear got his chance. Although he crushed the front paw of the bear, the tiger wasn't able to break the hold of the bear. He died as a result of suffocation. Wild Amur tigers killed by wild Ussuri bears, as far as I know, seldom perish as a result of a crushing blow or crushed ribs. Most are strangled, which means the bear in question had to be a strong animal. Chances are it was a male in most cases. This is one reason why I don't buy the general view on no engagements between male tigers and male bears, but that's another story. When Sysoev was director of the Chabarowsk Natural History Museum, a diorama was constructed. It shows a male brown bear and a male Amur tiger engaged in battle.  |
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Post by 6f5e4d on Apr 2, 2020 4:17:29 GMT 5
Wow, a whole thread for bear vs. tiger combat is gonna be fun, but I can say this, both are powerful fighters in their own way.
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Post by elosha11 on Apr 30, 2020 8:20:21 GMT 5
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on May 4, 2020 6:19:59 GMT 5
Tigers reach adulthood (4 to 6 years old) faster than brown bears (9 to 10 years old) by the way.
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Post by elosha11 on May 4, 2020 17:33:27 GMT 5
Tigers reach adulthood (4 to 6 years old) faster than brown bears (9 to 10 years old) by the way. Any idea how big a three year old brown bear of either sex would be compared to a two year old tiger? |
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on May 4, 2020 18:52:34 GMT 5
Tigers reach adulthood (4 to 6 years old) faster than brown bears (9 to 10 years old) by the way. Any idea how big a three year old brown bear of either sex would be compared to a two year old tiger? A three year old brown bear has not reach sexual maturity yet (females develop sexual maturity earlier than males) and I guess would be about half to one third the size of a full grown adult bear. A two year old tiger has just reach independence and sexual maturity despite not being full grown. Probably half the size of a full grown adult. Bears also live longer. |
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